Author Topic: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque  (Read 8017 times)

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Offline Alan

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #45 on: 07 April 2016, 05:37:40 AM »
Nick

I am glad to hear that Eli Lilly et al have seen the light.  May I ask if these are the PCSK9 drugs they have been touting?  I was asked to participate in a study about these locally and I said "only if I can be assured that I will get the placebo".

I doubt it; this was on last night's news: http://www.9news.com.au/health/2016/04/07/13/24/powerful-new-cholesterol-drug-approved-for-use-in-australia
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
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Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
There is nothing I could eat I like more than my eyes.
Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey (latest: Small New York Baked Low Carb Cheesecake)
Born Under a Wandering Star (Latest:Dambulla, Sigiriya and Polonuwarra, Sri Lanka)

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #46 on: 07 April 2016, 09:28:49 AM »
Evidently they are not the same drug and the two drugs work in different ways, but if you check my 2nd paragraph you'll note that I said that although they have dropped that particular drug, it's more about seeing that raised HDL doesn't help rather than debunking the lipid hypotheses.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline lozzark

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #47 on: 01 May 2016, 02:33:59 AM »
Evidently they are not the same drug and the two drugs work in different ways, but if you check my 2nd paragraph you'll note that I said that although they have dropped that particular drug, it's more about seeing that raised HDL doesn't help rather than debunking the lipid hypotheses.
I think the point about the lipid hypothesis is that the trials reduced LDL by some considerable margin, but the drug recipients did not reduce their atherosclerosis or incidence of heat attack.

I now have over 40 causes of heart disease, but some need explaining.  I'll post them when I have more time.
T2 Dx 2000 Metformin Gliclazide HbA1c 53 BP 129/79 Cholesterol 5.4, HDL 1.16, LDL 2.9.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #48 on: 01 May 2016, 12:09:49 PM »
Right, thanks Nick that will be good.  Incidentally have you read Malcolm Kendrick's series of blogs (I think it's 12 so far) in the causes of heart disease.  Most interesting.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline lozzark

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #49 on: 01 May 2016, 09:17:45 PM »
Right, thanks Nick that will be good.  Incidentally have you read Malcolm Kendrick's series of blogs (I think it's 12 so far) in the causes of heart disease.  Most interesting.
I've read some but not al.  In the Great Cholesterol con, he thinks stress is a big factor.  I'm sure it is, there are still many more.  I'm still working on the list.
T2 Dx 2000 Metformin Gliclazide HbA1c 53 BP 129/79 Cholesterol 5.4, HDL 1.16, LDL 2.9.

Offline Dr DeEath

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #50 on: 12 October 2017, 01:40:24 PM »
Someone I met at the cardio clinic has passed me on some information which may be a pointer to why I have PAD and CVD despite never having had a cholesterol level above 4.2. Once I have digested it and made sure it is not quackery I will add it to this thread.
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #51 on: 12 October 2017, 05:30:46 PM »
Thanks.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline sedge

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #52 on: 12 October 2017, 10:04:37 PM »
Sounds interesting Dr D !
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Dr DeEath

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #53 on: 25 October 2017, 01:43:35 PM »
So what has Dr D found out about arterial plaque?

Whilst at the cardiology clinic I met someone who actually needs one more coronary artery bypassing than me! During the longish wait we found we had quite a bit in common and chat every week or two via email or phone. A few weeks ago he found out that someone he knows was down for a stent about nine years ago but it never happened and he has improved. So what happened?

The mantra from most GPs and consultants  is that high cholesterol causes arterial plaque and that, their beloved, statins are a miracle drug that prevents this. However, I have never had high cholesterol but am awaiting a bypass and yet others with above average cholesterol have no issues with furring of the arteries. My highest ever was 4.2 and is currently 3.5 on atorvastatin. I have been on them for seven years since I was diagnosed with a circulation problem in my left leg and the vascular surgeon would not see me unless I took statins. At that time apart from cramps in the leg when I tried to walk any distance or up more than one flight of stairs I felt fine and had plenty of energy. Now I really struggle and have been diagnosed with furred coronary arteries despite taking the “wonder drug” statins!

Also the first arteries that first display signs of arterial plaque are the largest – the coronary and femoral arteries. What is different about them? They have the strongest pulses; i.e. under most strain! Another observation is that the problem is also associated with inflammation – more common with diabetes, gum disease and various other illnesses/diseases. The theory is that cholesterol is laid down to try and repair the damage. So the body in protecting itself is causing further damage elsewhere. If you think back to your history lessons at one time scurvy was a disease  that affected sailors. This is a disease of the blood vessels and it was found to be prevented by Vitamin C – limes. So the thought is that Vitamin C may prevent plaque build up in some people.  The person I mentioned takes daily Vitamin C and has to date not been stented but has found his health has improved. Even if you have your 5-a-day you may not get the recommend dose of Vitamin C because it goes down during storage/transportation. I now take Vitamin C (as absorbic acid) daily; just the RDA not an overdose. No idea if it is helping but as I see it it can do no harm. I will let you make up your own mind!

P.S. Sorry for the delay - a family member was rushed to hospital with septicaemia last week!
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline Liam

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #54 on: 25 October 2017, 02:03:14 PM »
Well the good thing with Vit C is you can't really over dose (I'm sure there is a way if you take it by the Kilo lol) Excess is removed via urination. I'm a believer in higher heart and circulatory problems in diabetics is all about excess glucose in the blood so keeping BGs as close to normal as I can is the best thing I can do for it (as well as all the other things)
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
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Offline Dr DeEath

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #55 on: 25 October 2017, 04:17:36 PM »
Agreed Liam but it is not the only factors although we know raised blood glucose increases the risk and seriousness of infection. My non-diabetic father died of a heart attack (caused by a blocked artery) at 65 and his father of the same cause at 55. In my grandfather's case I suspect he was an undiagnosed Type II but we are going back to the inter-war years...
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #56 on: 25 October 2017, 04:52:55 PM »
From various reading/studies I have read I understand that the reason for being more at risk with a higher Hba1c is that there are more "scratchy" sugar molecules attached to your blood corpuscles, which in their turn irritate the lining of the blood vessels and cause inflammation, hence the cholesterol lays down plaques to cover and heal the inflammation caused by the glucose molecules.  So you are both right.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Alan

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #57 on: 25 October 2017, 09:04:09 PM »
Thank you for your latest report Dr D. I am so sorry to see your continuing cardiac and eye problems.

It is now over a decade since I first refused to continue lipitor. During that time my LDL and total cholesterol has remained stratospheric (GP's description  :) ) but my HDL and trigs have been in a reasonable range. Equally important my A1c has never exceeded 7%(53) and has occasionally been under 6%(42). At the doctor's request I had a stress ECG and heart ultrasound in 2014 after once again refusing the statin. We were both surprised that I passsed with flying colours.

I will never again take a statin but I will try to include more vitamin C in my menu after reading your comments. I must admit I have been lax in allowing my fruit intake to diminish lately.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
There is nothing I could eat I like more than my eyes.
Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey (latest: Small New York Baked Low Carb Cheesecake)
Born Under a Wandering Star (Latest:Dambulla, Sigiriya and Polonuwarra, Sri Lanka)

Offline Dr DeEath

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #58 on: 26 October 2017, 01:16:20 PM »
I think the mechanism for arterial plaque is extremely complex and that references to "high cholesterol" are near throwaway comments. For instances narrowing of the femoral arteries is not uncommon in smokers of long standing but I have never seen a why? My view is that as it is extremely unlikely Vitamin C  can do any harm it might jusdt help hold the situation whilst I await surgery. I thought the delays between my various tests was excessive but yesterday I heard of someone waiting three months between a CT scan and an echocardiogram. It does seem a postcode lottery at times.
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline everydayupsanddowns

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Re: High cholesterol and atherosclerotic plaque
« Reply #59 on: 26 October 2017, 04:57:46 PM »
I think the mechanism for arterial plaque is extremely complex and that references to "high cholesterol" are near throwaway comments. For instances narrowing of the femoral arteries is not uncommon in smokers of long standing but I have never seen a why? My view is that as it is extremely unlikely Vitamin C  can do any harm it might jusdt help hold the situation whilst I await surgery. I thought the delays between my various tests was excessive but yesterday I heard of someone waiting three months between a CT scan and an echocardiogram. It does seem a postcode lottery at times.

Interesting about the Vit C Dr D. I wonder if it makes a difference if the C is derived from foods, or added as a supplement. I know some vitamin interactions seem fuss about their origin (eg Vit D gives great results from sunlight that cannot be replicated by supplements).
Mike

Type 1 since: 1991 Last HBA1c: 45 (6.3%)  Total Chol 5.0 (1.9HDL / 2.8LDL / Trigs 0.7)
Pumping NovoRapid in a MiniMed 640G
Blogging at: www.everydayupsanddowns.co.uk