Author Topic: Exercise and Blood Sugars  (Read 1307 times)

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Offline Lucy

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Exercise and Blood Sugars
« on: 14 January 2015, 03:39:57 PM »
After a nice steady blood sugar day at around 6-7 all day (well once my correction worked this morning anyway), it's gym day and so i know that the usual is going to happen, and it's all going to get screwed up. So i need some advice.
 
I ususally start in the 4-6 range as i go after work and usually go before dinner. I've tried no carbs and i've tried lucozade before starting and with both during the 30 minute treadmill in the gym my blood sugar spikes. This is then followed by a drop during the 30 minutes in the pool and the getting changed after.
 
How do i work out whether i need more carbs, or less carbs, or slower carbs, or differently timed carbs, or a different type of carbs... I'm considering trying slower food before it tonight but there's no logical reasoning behind that, i just havent tried that yet.
 
Any ideas?
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline himtoo

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #1 on: 14 January 2015, 04:37:43 PM »
another thought -- as the treadmill is most likely more intensely strenuous how about switching and doing the pool first


distance runners use bananas as a bit slower carb  ??
T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline Lucy

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #2 on: 14 January 2015, 04:44:40 PM »
It's for practical reasons. Doing the pool first would mean two showers Himtoo... Pool, shower, dry, change, treadmill, put wet swimsuit on, shower, change sounds a lot more faff than treadmill, change, swim, shower, change.

I'll try a banana right before i head out tonight as my slower carb as they are still fairly speedy from what i have seen in my experiments but slower than lucozade, and i have some in.
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline sedge

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #3 on: 14 January 2015, 04:46:52 PM »
Yes I think Alan Eastwood - Northerner - used stuff like cereal bars when doing his marathons and has more recently doing 'halves'.

My own sense suggests you would need the carb in a steady drip rather than a whoosh, as in the case of Lucozade - whether diabetic or not.
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Lucy

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #4 on: 14 January 2015, 04:48:51 PM »
Hmm. I also have some oatcakes which are probably more drippy than bananas. They may also be worth a try. Though there are a lot more carbs in the banana. Its the high blood sugar that is the problem that i want to fix not the drop, so maybe i need less carb not more. Guess its more experimentation!
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline Liam

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #5 on: 14 January 2015, 04:50:32 PM »
I don't really have any good advice. The only thing I do that cause me lows after is a whole house hoover lol Plus for that I just set a -10% basal, so hardly helpful to you. It is something I'll need to look into if I'm going to loss the belly but again I'm more likely to change my pumps settings rather than eat but I'd be interested in your results either way.

Edit I missed that you were more worried about the high, I'm not sure less carbs would help as I'm assuming your body is dumping from the liver because of 'stressful event', I mean physical stress rather than emotional. I guess maybe you could time insulin and slow carbs to all work perfectly but I bet it will be hard to get right. You'd need to preload insulin and know pretty well when the carbs would be released. You are using the Libre right? That will help but I guess it is only because of it you see these results? Like with my normal meter I'd like only see the results just before swimming.   
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline himtoo

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #6 on: 14 January 2015, 04:54:41 PM »
Hmm. I also have some oatcakes which are probably more drippy than bananas. They may also be worth a try. Though there are a lot more carbs in the banana. Its the high blood sugar that is the problem that i want to fix not the drop, so maybe i need less carb not more. Guess its more experimentation!
maybe 1/2 a banana ?
T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline Lucy

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #7 on: 14 January 2015, 05:09:23 PM »
Yeah i'm using the libre liam. Got one on atm too and it's spot on - just tested 7.3 sensor and 7.4 blood. If i was only using fingerpricks i'd probably only test before the swimming. I'll experiment...
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline Liam

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #8 on: 14 January 2015, 06:14:13 PM »
I wish I could be more helpful. I just don't know what will work, I bet any advice would need testing for you personally anyway.
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #9 on: 14 January 2015, 06:23:20 PM »
Quote
Hmm. I also have some oatcakes which are probably more drippy than bananas.
Sorry I have a mental picture of you standing in the shallow end of the pool eating a wet dripping oatcake.

Seriously, why don't you try half a banana before the treadmill and the other half between treadmill and pool?
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


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Offline himtoo

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #10 on: 14 January 2015, 10:38:38 PM »
Hi Lucy


how did you get on this evening....waiting to know if the 1/2 spare banana is now in a cake  ;)
T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline nytquill17

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #11 on: 14 January 2015, 11:46:48 PM »
A tricky piece of the puzzle is that the liver, in addition to responding to blood sugar levels (like in a liver dump), it can also respond to blood *insulin* levels. In a non-diabetic person, since insulin levels also respond to blood sugar levels, low blood insulin can be a secondary sign of low BG. So sometimes the liver can respond to low blood insulin as if it were a low BG. I suspect given that this is a time of day when you've traditionally had lots of trouble with lows, that you have probably adjusted your insulin doses to be at their lowest around this time as well. So that may be a factor.

I'm not saying to take more insulin at the time of day when you've traditionally always been lowest and when you are doing exercise that's going to make it lower! Just pointing out that the situation may be even more complicated, in that you have multiple factors that all feed into a potential for a liver dump. Time of day (seems to be a point of high sensitivity for you), intensity of exercise, drop in BG, low blood insulin.  With work and everything, you can't just change your workout time, and doing a lower-intensity workout may not be feasible for you either depending on your goals. And that's all perfectly fine! :) But it does come together to mean that you may not be able to iron out that BG rise perfectly.

As a long-time insulin user, I have learned to accept that if I intend to do particularly strenuous exercise, a liver dump is always a possibility. There are things that make it more likely than others (working out before breakfast = guaranteed!) but even with the stars in alignment it's still possible. I found it easier to focus on the long-term benefits of exercise on my BG and my insulin requirements, or even to focus on the non-diabetic results of my exercise like physical endurance and strength, since the exercise itself actually played havoc with my BGs most of the time.

Of course you want to experiment, as you're doing, to find a routine that gets things the smoothest possible - find what works the best for you. Don't give up! Just don't be afraid to think outside of the box :)
T1 DX 1995
Levemir + Novorapid
 
  ~-~-~-~
"If you can't ride, can you fall?"
"I suppose anyone can fall," said Shasta.
"I mean can you fall and get up again without crying, and mount again and fall again and yet not be afraid of falling?"
"I - I'll try," said Shasta.
  ~C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy
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"There is no answer; seek it lovingly."

Offline Lucy

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #12 on: 15 January 2015, 12:04:08 AM »
Well it worked much better than last time. I only went up by 2 mmol! The saved half a banana was a bit warm though by the time i got to it and i should have remembered to take all my clothes to get dressed after swimming!!My blood sugar actually went up during the swimming bit for a change today. Stayed in the 6s during treadmill section and then went up to 8s between 2nd half of banana and finishing swimming.

I had the first half a banana as i left for the gym. Its about a 2 minute walk down the street.
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline himtoo

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #13 on: 15 January 2015, 07:42:45 AM »
Well it worked much better than last time. I only went up by 2 mmol! The saved half a banana was a bit warm though by the time i got to it and i should have remembered to take all my clothes to get dressed after swimming!!My blood sugar actually went up during the swimming bit for a change today. Stayed in the 6s during treadmill section and then went up to 8s between 2nd half of banana and finishing swimming.

I had the first half a banana as i left for the gym. Its about a 2 minute walk down the street.
good news your spike was reduced and the low eliminated-- remember to test the theory again and make sure some fast acting with you in case the "experiment" is not as successful next time.

but does look a winner !! 8)
T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline TerryJ

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Re: Exercise and Blood Sugars
« Reply #14 on: 15 January 2015, 09:11:41 AM »
This study might give you some insights -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3587394/
Type 2 since 1999. Current meds Gliclazide
HbA1c Feb10 10.9, May10 7.7, Oct10 6.6, Oct11 6.7, Dec12 6.4, Nov13 6.9