Author Topic: Is anyone trying to lose weight?  (Read 4994 times)

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Offline GrammaBear

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #60 on: 06 July 2016, 03:52:54 PM »
Why is it the dietitians always recommend such a high carb diet for those of us who are diabetic?  I recently saw a new Endo and when I inquired if he had any suggestions regarding weight loss, he said "I can send you to the dietitian or if you don't want to do that, all I can suggest is to all but starve yourself."  The dietitian recommended 240 carbs which is not helpful at all in my opinion.
Type 1
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Dexcom G4 CGM Sep 2007
A1C 6.5%~ Sep 2017

Offline nytquill17

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #61 on: 06 July 2016, 04:42:13 PM »
It's how they're taught to think about food and nutrition: People need a certain amount of calories to survive. People should not eat too much fat, especially people at risk for heart disease. But then they have to make up the difference in calories, so carbs must be the way to go. They also are taught that carbs are entirely necessary as an energy source for the body and the brain, and that the brain requires 150g of carbs per day to function. Sugar and white flour are bad, but other carbs can be very nutritious and good sources of fiber. Diabetics as a group are at higher risk of heart disease than the average population so they should minimize fat even more and thus need to make up even more of their calorie needs from carbs.

Some of that is true, some is not true (but still generally accepted - and therefore taught - as fact). A lot of it is not *exactly* true but has some basis in fact, only the studies those facts supposedly come from were never examined with a critical eye (for example, "diabetics as a group" presumes that all diabetics are exactly the same in terms of risk for complications...NOT!).

A lot of the conclusions medical and nutritional professionals arrive at are due to an extreme focus on heart disease. You've heard the phrase "media darling?" Heart disease is the medical version of that. Anything about heart disease will get a lot of attention in studies and in doctor's practices. When you are diabetic, often what gets the focus is not so much the diabetes as it is your potential risk for heart problems (in my experience anyway!). The actual diabetes care is not the star of the show. Hence why medical folks can both know, on the one hand, that carbs = sugar = increased BG, and turn right around and recommend a carb-based diet to a diabetic. Because the other option is to recommend a fat-and-protein-based diet, and that sets off all the much louder alarms in their heads about heart disease!

There is also the (incorrect) association between dietary fat and body fat, i.e. weight gain. And between weight and diabetes. The assumption is that weight makes diabetes and its complications worse, and weight makes heart disease risk worse. Or even causes both those things in the first place. So if heart disease is not the central focus in treating a diabetic, weight usually will be - but again, not the diabetes itself! Because diabetes is not (yet anyway) the sort of "medical media darling" that heart disease and obesity are. And once again, based on their training, they can't bring themselves to recommend a high-fat diet to someone who should be watching their weight AND their heart. So carbs it is.

 It's not really their fault that they're taught it that way, nor is it their fault for learning it - they don't have any reason not to trust the education they're given and they don't have time to independently review every single study related to all the "facts" they are taught and decide for themselves. I do think it is a bit their fault once they start to see diabetic patients NOT succeeding in weight loss or BG control on their high-carb advice. Sadly, however, since medicine and nutrition are such complex fields, there is always some other option to consider besides jumping to "everything I was taught was wrong." Maybe this patient also had a thyroid problem. Maybe this patient wasn't being entirely honest about how much they ate. Maybe this person was eating the wrong KIND of carbs, or in the wrong combinations, or is taking other medications that are interfering, or... And these kinds of explanations are easier because they require less soul-searching and they don't risk you having to relearn everything you thought you knew, having to reevaluate the wisdom of teachers and colleagues you trusted, possibly being ostracized in your field for espousing a non-traditional view, etc.

I'm not saying it's excusable or acceptable, but it's not really a mystery once you understand the context they're working in.
T1 DX 1995
Levemir + Novorapid
 
  ~-~-~-~
"If you can't ride, can you fall?"
"I suppose anyone can fall," said Shasta.
"I mean can you fall and get up again without crying, and mount again and fall again and yet not be afraid of falling?"
"I - I'll try," said Shasta.
  ~C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy
  ~-~-~-~
"There is no answer; seek it lovingly."

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #62 on: 06 July 2016, 07:35:24 PM »
 
Quote
I do think it is a bit their fault once they start to see diabetic patients NOT succeeding in weight loss or BG control on their high-carb advice. Sadly, however, since medicine and nutrition are such complex fields, there is always some other option to consider besides jumping to "everything I was taught was wrong." Maybe this patient also had a thyroid problem. Maybe this patient wasn't being entirely honest about how much they ate. Maybe this person was eating the wrong KIND of carbs, or in the wrong combinations, or is taking other medications that are interfering, or..
Or the patient is lying about what they ate... yes, all too common I am afraid Nyt.

I just got fed up today.  I had 2 x Ryvita for brekkie, with butter and Marmite, because I was going out for lunch and needed to take the tabs I normally take with lunch.  My friend and I walked about 2 miles to our lunch place overlooking the sea, sat on the terrace and she had a crab sandwich with salad garnish.  I had a salad of mixed leaves, walnuts, goat's cheese and beetroot.  Both had mineral water.  We were both starving after, so we went to Jessie's Dairy and got 2 ice creams, before walking the long way home (3.5 miles).  I am now annoyed with myself... but hey, sometimes a girl must do what a girl must do.  The Orange and Marscapone scoop on a waffle cone was absolutely delicious!
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline sedge

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #63 on: 06 July 2016, 09:08:28 PM »
Good grief woman - if a 5.5 mile hike can't 'kill' a flipping ice cream (even an indulgent one LOL) then it's a damn poor show!

And I guess, the 'fact' that I need 150g CHO for my brain obviously explains why Pete often suggests I'm brain dead, does it?
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #64 on: 06 July 2016, 11:18:03 PM »
Aaah said she. brightening up!
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline himtoo

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #65 on: 06 July 2016, 11:27:24 PM »
sedge -- glad you said it first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline sedge

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #66 on: 06 July 2016, 11:54:13 PM »
I shan't enquire which bit you are referring to - MATE !
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Lucy

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #67 on: 07 July 2016, 08:21:51 AM »
The scales don't like me today. I had a very bad hypo last night. 2.5 hrs between 2 and 3.5 and well over 200 carbs to fix it. I suspect I mixed up my insulins without realising. Anyway had gained 5 pounds this morning but I think we'll ignore that.
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #68 on: 07 July 2016, 08:46:08 AM »
I bet you have lost the 2.5 lbs tomorrow Lucy.


Sorry to hear about the hypo, they are vile aren't they.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Lucy

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #69 on: 07 July 2016, 08:53:22 AM »
Yes it just hit me like a wall and I couldn't understand why it kept saying 2.x after more and more carbs. Feeling rough this morning.
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline Venomous

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #70 on: 07 July 2016, 08:59:49 AM »
So sorry you're feeling rough Lucy. Thats a sustained hypo. Now you've lost weight do you need less insulin?

Thank you Nyt for the post because when I am at the "this is about your weight" dieticians telling me to eat more carbs and me wanting to strangle her I'll think on your words of wisdom.
T2 and PCOS. Just had large serous adenofibroma removed with ovary and fallopian tube. Bp is now normal!

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Offline pms543

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #71 on: 26 July 2016, 07:29:59 AM »
Quite chuffed with self this morning, as despite a few days off track I have managed to lose 2pounds!

Am kind of following Michael Moseleys principles of the Mediterranean diet which make sense but as am on these meds and insulin don't want to be silly so will carry on as something is working for me...

Hope you feel much better Lucy x
Poppet x

I have Coeliac disease.

Diagnosed Type 2 16/08/2010

OCT 2013 2 X 500g Glucosaphage

Current slow release Metformin 2000g

Victoza 1.2 daily

36 Units Insultard

30mg Prednisalone

2 x 500mg Calcichew D3 Forte

30mg Amitriptyline


16/11/2010 1st HbA1c 8.5, HDL 1.1, LDL 2.7, Trigs 1.6 
17/02/2015 HbA1c 108mmol, HDL 1.5, LDL 4.3, Trigs 2.7 Total Chol 4.7

25/04/2017 HbA1c  84mmol,Chol 7.7

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #72 on: 26 July 2016, 03:06:16 PM »
Well done on the 2lbs.

I am afraid I am exactly where I started from on 24 June.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline GrammaBear

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #73 on: 26 July 2016, 05:33:07 PM »
Yes it just hit me like a wall and I couldn't understand why it kept saying 2.x after more and more carbs. Feeling rough this morning.

So sorry you are feeling rough this morning.  Has anyone ever figured out why a person feels poorly the day after a hypo?  Sometimes when I have a sustained hypo, I get a feeling of panic and commence eating anything that looks good.  I always feel exhausted the following day.
Type 1
Tandem Tslim pump Oct 2015
Dexcom G4 CGM Sep 2007
A1C 6.5%~ Sep 2017

Offline nytquill17

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Re: Is anyone trying to lose weight?
« Reply #74 on: 26 July 2016, 05:54:31 PM »
Don't think there's a lot to figure out there, really - your brain has just had a major emergency that has threatened its ability to function. It's not going to pop back up from that as if nothing had happened and everything were normal :)

It's mostly to do with hormones. The brain's main way of getting the body to do what it wants is through hormones. During a hypo, the brain knows it needs energy or it is about to (potentially) die, so it mobilizes an army of hormones to get the body to behave in ways that will save the brain and save itself! Hormones that induce hunger, for example, to get you to eat. And that induce panic, to compel you to act (i.e., this isn't just normal oh-I'm-hungry-but-I-can-wait-for-dinner, this is I need to eat NOW, RIGHT NOW, my very life depends on it.) And in particular, adrenaline, which is released in response to any kind of life-threatening or potentially life-threatening experience.

Adrenaline is part of what is known as the "fight or flight" response: if you are under threat from, say, a wild animal, you can stay alive either by killing it or by running from it. Either way, you're going to need every ounce of energy, speed, and strength you can get. Adrenaline increases blood flow to your muscles, increases your heart rate, expands your airways and raises your blood sugar. This gives you the energy and oxygen needed to hit hard or run fast. It can also make you shaky, sweaty, and panicky! And as people who have to have adrenaline shots (epi pens) for allergies or for cardiac arrest can attest to, an adrenaline shot leaves you feeling absolutely exhausted and poorly afterwards. It basically causes you to burn through all your emergency reserves in the space of a few minutes.
T1 DX 1995
Levemir + Novorapid
 
  ~-~-~-~
"If you can't ride, can you fall?"
"I suppose anyone can fall," said Shasta.
"I mean can you fall and get up again without crying, and mount again and fall again and yet not be afraid of falling?"
"I - I'll try," said Shasta.
  ~C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy
  ~-~-~-~
"There is no answer; seek it lovingly."