Author Topic: Flozins warning!  (Read 552 times)

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Offline Moby

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bw
Moby

T2 since 2002.
metformin 2000mg. humalin I and humalog
Xpert graduate & Xpert Insulin Graduate. (for what it's worth)


©Martin Cronshaw 2015

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #1 on: 11 February 2017, 10:22:37 AM »
Oh yet more bad news on that drug.!
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Liam

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #2 on: 11 February 2017, 01:09:53 PM »
It kind of feels like all the 'new' type II drugs have these pretty nasty side effects (is it just me that feels they are pretty common since most of our members using them have had issues of some type?) I'd be temped to use insulin if I was a type II on that stage. The main downsides of insulin are the amount of work counting carbs and maybe more difficulty losing weight.
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #3 on: 11 February 2017, 01:55:24 PM »
I think you're right Liam, they do seem to have very common side effects!
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline nytquill17

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #4 on: 11 February 2017, 03:38:28 PM »
One thing I have learned from this forum is that using insulin as a T2 is in a lot of ways MORE complicated than using insulin as a T1. Mainly because you never know, when you're trying to figure out "what did what", how much of any effect on BG you're seeing is your own pancreas kicking in some help. Makes it super hard to make any predictions or calculations when you can't zero that out, but you can't know how much it was either or whether it will do it again next time.

So I see now that a lot of T2s are really stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as that goes. It does seem like pharmaceutical researchers are so focused on getting new drugs out that lower BGs (by any means possible) that we are getting wave after wave of ill-thought-out medications. I'm all for there being more options on the market rather than less, because any one of these drugs that causes innumerable problems for one person may be just the ticket for another person. But it would be nice if we had some more solid, good-for-a-majority-of-people options that were coming out rather than these drugs that force you to choose between one bad consequence (high BGs if you don't take it) or another (side effects if you do take it!)
T1 DX 1995
Levemir + Novorapid
 
  ~-~-~-~
"If you can't ride, can you fall?"
"I suppose anyone can fall," said Shasta.
"I mean can you fall and get up again without crying, and mount again and fall again and yet not be afraid of falling?"
"I - I'll try," said Shasta.
  ~C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy
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Offline Moby

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #5 on: 11 February 2017, 08:10:37 PM »
In theory, the action of these drugs, is a logical one. If your bg's are high you don't need anymore being reabsorbed by the kidneys. So, it should be good news!
unfortunately the side effects seem to be the stumbling blocks on all medication.

I'm on 10mg of empagliflozin and have seen a reduction in my bg's and a 2kg loss in weight., but the weight loss seems to have stopped now.
I recently saw my consultant which was an absolute waste of time. Ill post more on that meeting in another thread.
bw
Moby

T2 since 2002.
metformin 2000mg. humalin I and humalog
Xpert graduate & Xpert Insulin Graduate. (for what it's worth)


©Martin Cronshaw 2015

Offline Liam

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #6 on: 11 February 2017, 08:32:35 PM »
Oh I should have read about the med again before posting. I had it mixed up with another.
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline Quantum Learning

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #7 on: 12 February 2017, 10:56:59 AM »
One thing I have learned from this forum is that using insulin as a T2 is in a lot of ways MORE complicated than using insulin as a T1. Mainly because you never know, when you're trying to figure out "what did what", how much of any effect on BG you're seeing is your own pancreas kicking in some help. Makes it super hard to make any predictions or calculations when you can't zero that out, but you can't know how much it was either or whether it will do it again next time.

So I see now that a lot of T2s are really stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as that goes. It does seem like pharmaceutical researchers are so focused on getting new drugs out that lower BGs (by any means possible) that we are getting wave after wave of ill-thought-out medications. I'm all for there being more options on the market rather than less, because any one of these drugs that causes innumerable problems for one person may be just the ticket for another person. But it would be nice if we had some more solid, good-for-a-majority-of-people options that were coming out rather than these drugs that force you to choose between one bad consequence (high BGs if you don't take it) or another (side effects if you do take it!)

I'm wondering if this is why GP's (in Britain at least) are told to give type 2's increasing amounts of these dangerous (IMO) drugs before they are allowed to prescribe them insulin, a process of steps which they are supposed to adhere to. To date I've had precisely 3 hypos since starting on insulin and looking back I believe all 3 were caused by my pancreas suddenly joining the party. I did of course avoid the 'steps' process by refusing anything other than insulin so they had no choice but to give it to me. I did have one GP saying to me 'why on earth would you want to stick needles in yourself if you don't have to' but it was a no-brainer to me. I needed to drop my BG's (a lot) and I'd rather stick needles in myself than take any of these 'dodgy' drugs with their awful side effects and future problems like tumours etc.
Type 2 dx Nov 2012 with fasting BG 14%/129.5
HbA1c Jan 2013 79/9.3%
April 2013 50/6.7%
July 2013 39/5.7%
Oct 2013 39/5.7% Chol 5.9
July 2014 45/6.3% Chol 5.5
Aug 2015 61/7.7% Chol 5.9
May 2016 84/9.7% Chol 6.9
Oct 2016 53/7%  Chol 6.3
Dec 2016 41/5.9% Chol 6.0
June 2017 51/6.8% Chol 6.1
Oct 2017 52/6.9% Chol
Metformin SR 2000mg, Candesarten Cilexetil 4mg Omeprazole 20mg, Fexofenadine 180mg Co-Codamol 30/500g when needed. Amitriptyline 20mg
Toujeo/NovoRapid, Allergic to Levemir.

Offline Lucy

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Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #8 on: 12 February 2017, 03:12:27 PM »
One thing I have learned from this forum is that using insulin as a T2 is in a lot of ways MORE complicated than using insulin as a T1. Mainly because you never know, when you're trying to figure out "what did what", how much of any effect on BG you're seeing is your own pancreas kicking in some help. Makes it super hard to make any predictions or calculations when you can't zero that out, but you can't know how much it was either or whether it will do it again next time.

So I see now that a lot of T2s are really stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as that goes. It does seem like pharmaceutical researchers are so focused on getting new drugs out that lower BGs (by any means possible) that we are getting wave after wave of ill-thought-out medications. I'm all for there being more options on the market rather than less, because any one of these drugs that causes innumerable problems for one person may be just the ticket for another person. But it would be nice if we had some more solid, good-for-a-majority-of-people options that were coming out rather than these drugs that force you to choose between one bad consequence (high BGs if you don't take it) or another (side effects if you do take it!)

I'm wondering if this is why GP's (in Britain at least) are told to give type 2's increasing amounts of these dangerous (IMO) drugs before they are allowed to prescribe them insulin, a process of steps which they are supposed to adhere to. To date I've had precisely 3 hypos since starting on insulin and looking back I believe all 3 were caused by my pancreas suddenly joining the party. I did of course avoid the 'steps' process by refusing anything other than insulin so they had no choice but to give it to me. I did have one GP saying to me 'why on earth would you want to stick needles in yourself if you don't have to' but it was a no-brainer to me. I needed to drop my BG's (a lot) and I'd rather stick needles in myself than take any of these 'dodgy' drugs with their awful side effects and future problems like tumours etc.

I agree, i'd sooner drop the victoza/metformin i take than the insulin. Some doctors seem to assume my goal is to get off insulin and that thats what everyone wants. Erm, nope. I always want some bolus in my fridge, even if i got to a point where i didnt need it i'd still not trust my body to cope with not having any in the house and would want some 'just in case' of a cold or whatever other little thing shoots bgs up. Yes insulin and counting carbs etc is a hassle, but given my body has proven its not capable of controlling insulin/bgs, i'd just rather have the ability to take control myself. I wish i'd started it sooner but had to work through the pathway showing that everything else failed first.
Type: Lucy. A1C 44 / 6.0% Jan17.
Lantus, Victoza and Apidra. Metformin XR, Bisoprolol (for SVT). Dexcom G4 with xdrip and nightscout.

Offline Alan

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    • Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey
Re: Flozins warning!
« Reply #9 on: 12 February 2017, 09:49:55 PM »
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/875649?nlid=112653_3901&src=wnl_newsalrt_170210_MSCPEDIT&uac=150977BN&impID=1288424&faf=1

Thanks for the heads up. I will repeat this elsewhere.

Once again I am reminded why I decided years ago that the true human trials start when drugs first become approved for prescription by doctors to the public.

If at all possible I avoid meds which have not been out there for at least ten years.

Sometimes I have to break that rule when there are no other options, but not often. For type 2 meds my primary 'other option' is my way of eating. If or when that is inadequate I am more likely to embrace insulin than a recently developed oral med.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
There is nothing I could eat I like more than my eyes.
Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey (latest: Small New York Baked Low Carb Cheesecake)
Born Under a Wandering Star (Latest:Dambulla, Sigiriya and Polonuwarra, Sri Lanka)