Author Topic: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD  (Read 609 times)

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Offline Pattidevans

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Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


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Offline Avocado

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #1 on: 15 February 2017, 07:51:44 PM »
Thanks for alerting about that Patti. Very, very interesting, just watched the YouTube lecture !
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline Moby

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #2 on: 15 February 2017, 09:10:39 PM »

Always an interesting read, and, I always find a useful bit of info.


(Quote)


Don’t worry, there were about a thousand papers quoted in creating these statements, so the science seems robust. This discussion started because I had an interest in how hunter gatherers, who ate no carbohydrates, kept their brains going. What was the mechanism by which the Massai, Inuit and Sami, power their brains with glucose, if they don’t eat any carbohydrates?

Well, it seems that you can get a certain amount of glucose from fat. Fat is made up of triglycerides, and each triglyceride contains three fatty acids and one glycerol molecule. Two glycerol molecules stuck together (by the liver) makes one glucose molecule.

In short, pure fat does contain some glucose, which can be used to power the brain. However – assuming you are eating no carbs – the brain requires more glucose than can be provided by the glycerol held in triglycerides. Thus, you still need to convert some dietary protein into glucose. If you are not eating any food at all, the body will need to break down muscle to get at the protein required to synthesize glucose.

To cut a very long story short, the end point of the discussion was an agreement that you do not actually need to eat any carbohydrates to remain heathy. The body, and the brain, can get all the glucose it requires from glycerol and dietary protein.

The reason why I was interested in this issue was that ‘the absolute need for carbohydrates’ is a ‘fact’ that is thrown at me from time to time by ‘experts.’ I have always known they were wrong, because there are people e.g. the Massai, who never eat any carbohydrates, and remain far healthier than any expert I have ever cast my eyes upon. However, I wanted to be sure of the facts.
bw
Moby

T2 since 2002.
metformin 2000mg. humalin I and humalog
Xpert graduate & Xpert Insulin Graduate. (for what it's worth)


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Offline Alan

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #3 on: 16 February 2017, 05:22:41 AM »
Shocking, I say!! Shocking!!!

I've posted this before but some may have missed it. Ignore the religious nature of the url, that does not enter the story. From Are Carbs Really Necessary?: Vilhjalmur Stefansson's story in Harper's Monthly Magazine, November 1935.
 
Written long before Ancel Keys entered the picture.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
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Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
There is nothing I could eat I like more than my eyes.
Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey (latest: Small New York Baked Low Carb Cheesecake)
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Offline Alan

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #4 on: 16 February 2017, 06:08:23 AM »
Thanks for alerting about that Patti. Very, very interesting, just watched the YouTube lecture !

Well worth twenty minutes of our life. To some of us it confirms things we knew or believed already, but it is good to have peer-reviewed science arriving to support those beliefs.

I posted the youtube to FB.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
There is nothing I could eat I like more than my eyes.
Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey (latest: Small New York Baked Low Carb Cheesecake)
Born Under a Wandering Star (Latest:Dambulla, Sigiriya and Polonuwarra, Sri Lanka)

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #5 on: 16 February 2017, 09:31:01 AM »
The Stefansson story is absolutely fascinating!  Thank you for that Alan.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Alan

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #6 on: 16 February 2017, 11:10:47 AM »
The Stefansson story is absolutely fascinating!  Thank you for that Alan.

I read it a long time ago but never forgot it.

Would you mind removing the first of my duplicate posts please?
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
There is nothing I could eat I like more than my eyes.
Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey (latest: Small New York Baked Low Carb Cheesecake)
Born Under a Wandering Star (Latest:Dambulla, Sigiriya and Polonuwarra, Sri Lanka)

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #7 on: 16 February 2017, 12:43:40 PM »



I read it a long time ago but never forgot it.

Would you mind removing the first of my duplicate posts please?

It seems Liam has already obliged...


I have so far only read part 1 of the Steffanson story, as my iPad was running out of charge.  I hope to finish it later today.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline sedge

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #8 on: 16 February 2017, 03:28:22 PM »
Way back in the early days of the forum - may even have been back on DI - I well remember having a very very similar discussion with the same conclusion.  In fact someone - dunno who exactly - Steven (the DI guy) or TerryG, maybe Kate - just can't recall exactly who - posted some info dredged up from God knows where that in comparison with converting carbs to glucose, for fat the body needs 10% of the insulin needed and for protein needs 50%.

What I have never seen, though, is an actual scientific portrayal of when a T1 would need to actually add to their bolus in order for the body to do it.

Thus I have made the assumption (which could be erroneous since 99.9% of the carb-containing food any of us eat are NOT pure carb and always have other components in them) that either my own body gets enough carb not to bother itself with the more difficult job of converting any of the fat or protein elements of what I eat into glucose.  This is fuelled by the appearance of folk (eg Patti) who deliberately eat far fewer carbs than me - who NEED to inject insulin to deal with the protein and/or fat.

However - it could quite as easily be that my carb ratio - which is obviously not calculated/observed whilst eating pure 100% carb, adjusts itself to include some for the accompanying protein and/or fat.

It is a conundrum that I don't feel capable of delving any deeper into.  What I do - works pretty well for me.  What Patti does - works pretty well for her.  Do we actually NEED to spend any more time or brain power on it?

No, we've never really ever needed any carb.  It's just a damn sight easier to carry on eating some of it,  though !
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Research shows it's carbs not fat that cause CVD
« Reply #9 on: 16 February 2017, 06:47:51 PM »
Yes, I have always included an element for protein/fat, but it's more of a guesstimate. e.g. Saturday we often have a sandwich for lunch which consists of 4 rashers of streaky bacon and a fried egg between (in my case) 2 slices of Burgen, which is 24g carb but I always bolus for 30g to cover the egg and bacon as it seems to work for me.

Oh and the discussion was with TerryG very early on in the old forum (Not DI) but of course we lost that.  There's a chart on the website here http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=438
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans