Author Topic: They'll be pushing this on us next  (Read 310 times)

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Offline Quantum Learning

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They'll be pushing this on us next
« on: 18 March 2017, 10:56:29 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/18/drug-which-cuts-bad-cholesterol-can-help-prevent-heart-attacks-and-strokes

The article's bad enough but I found quite a lot of the peeps comments after to be quite shocking. The willingness to just believe everything they've been told by 'those in authority' is bad enough but the vehemence shown to anyone who doesn't is terrible. I think I'm stunned by the amount of 'sheep' out there even though, logically, it can be the only reason we are so successfully controlled by those in power.  :(
Type 2 dx Nov 2012 with fasting BG 14%/129.5
HbA1c Jan 2013 79/9.3%
April 2013 50/6.7%
July 2013 39/5.7%
Oct 2013 39/5.7% Chol 5.9
July 2014 45/6.3% Chol 5.5
Aug 2015 61/7.7% Chol 5.9
May 2016 84/9.7% Chol 6.9
Oct 2016 53/7%  Chol 6.3
Dec 2016 41/5.9% Chol 6.0
Metformin SR 2000mg, Candesarten Cilexetil 4mg Omeprazole 20mg, Fexofenadine 180mg Co-Codamol 30/500g when needed. Amitriptyline 10mg
Allergic to Levemir.
Toujeo 80 units at night.
NovoRapid when needed.

Offline Venomous

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #1 on: 18 March 2017, 11:34:31 AM »
I get so frustrated with all this! It worries me.. I used to have faith in our medical profession.
T2 and PCOS. Waiting for surgery on large ovarian masses.

Novorapid, levemir, trulicity, gliclazide, metformin.
Aspirin, Diltiazem.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #2 on: 18 March 2017, 02:24:01 PM »
Statins are now out of patent, so they are now admitting that they do have terrible side effects.  Ergo they have produced a new drug which they "say" is better and more effective.  This class of drugs is called a PCSK9 inhibitor and includes the one mentioned in your link Q.  It is given by injection and costs approx £4000 per annum... so I rather feel that GPs will be less inclined to foist it on all and sundry.  It's been around some time now, since about 2015 IIRC.  I was asked by the research centre at the county hospital if I would agree to go on a clinical trial for it.  I declined politely but firmly!

If you really want to know more about it, google "PCSK9 and Zoe Harcombe".  She has written several excellent blogs on the subject. This is but one of them.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Liam

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #3 on: 18 March 2017, 02:51:39 PM »
Well GPs will only push it is the NICE guidelines tell them too. I've not read them but I'll bet that NICE will no push it for use on everyone really. Firstly it is new and costly. It is also an injection which if I'm understanding right a nurse or HCA will need to give? Not sure if that cost is covered in the yearly figure? I'm hardly an expert but almost all injection medications seem to be made but 1 or 2 companies unlike pills which once out of patent loads jump on. 

Edit: Just read Patti's link about this. Seems NICE decided there was no evidence of benefit (over statins) then did a U turn on that.
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline sedge

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #4 on: 18 March 2017, 05:49:12 PM »
Well they are saying now they are seeing the lowest chol figures they've ever seen is hospitals and one's saying but we don't know if that's good or not, whilst another is saying wouldn't it be marvellous if we could have the same chol level as we did when we were born.

Excuse me - but how developed exactly is a newborn baby's brain? Does it actually need the same level of chol to sort itself out as it will when it's having to do simultaneous equations, play rugger and read the works of Shakespeare, split the atom or serve in Marks and Sparks all day?
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline nytquill17

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #5 on: 18 March 2017, 08:36:30 PM »
Thing I'd want to know is - ok, great, we're seeing the lowest chol figures ever in hospitals...so...are we seeing any less heart disease and arterial disease?
T1 DX 1995
Levemir + Novorapid
 
  ~-~-~-~
"If you can't ride, can you fall?"
"I suppose anyone can fall," said Shasta.
"I mean can you fall and get up again without crying, and mount again and fall again and yet not be afraid of falling?"
"I - I'll try," said Shasta.
  ~C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy
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"There is no answer; seek it lovingly."

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #6 on: 18 March 2017, 11:22:04 PM »
Exactly Nyt and I do not believe low chol = good health!
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #7 on: 20 March 2017, 03:24:01 PM »
Interestingly Malcolm Kendrick has just done a new blog about these PCSK9 drugs.... see https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/03/20/cholesterol-lowering-proven-or-not/
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Avocado

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #8 on: 21 March 2017, 07:11:15 AM »
Thing I'd want to know is - ok, great, we're seeing the lowest chol figures ever in hospitals...so...are we seeing any less heart disease and arterial disease?
Here are the mortality figures fromt he study:

   • The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group was 251
   • The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the placebo group was 240
   • So, 11 more people died of cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group

The overall mortality data

   • The total number of, overall, deaths in the Repatha group was 444
   • The total number of, overall, deaths in the placebo group was 426
   • So, there were 18 more deaths in those taking Repatha.


That's from Dr Kendrick's blog that Patti posted the link to. Dr K says those diferences are "insignificant statistically" !
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline everydayupsanddowns

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #9 on: 21 March 2017, 10:25:30 AM »
Thing I'd want to know is - ok, great, we're seeing the lowest chol figures ever in hospitals...so...are we seeing any less heart disease and arterial disease?
Here are the mortality figures fromt he study:

   • The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group was 251
   • The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the placebo group was 240
   • So, 11 more people died of cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group

The overall mortality data

   • The total number of, overall, deaths in the Repatha group was 444
   • The total number of, overall, deaths in the placebo group was 426
   • So, there were 18 more deaths in those taking Repatha.


That's from Dr Kendrick's blog that Patti posted the link to. Dr K says those diferences are "insignificant statistically" !

And I guess they are, because the study size was so enormous - 17,000 was it? Or was that the other one and it was 27,000.  :o

The really striking thing that he picked up on was that both this study and the other one were stopped half way through. Now this *can* happen when early results are so conclusive that it can be argued that it would be immoral to put the placebo patients at ongoing risk by denying them wonderdrug X, but the earlier study was stopped and the development of it stopped. Plus the fact that over the course of the study mortality/CVD was pretty much identical for placebo and intervention arms - so there would be no moral duty to stop the study on that basis.

I go round and round in circles about cholesterol, because there IS good evidence for improved outcomes in a significant body of research that (if it existed for CGM for example) I would be jumping up and down to get whatever it was made available. BUT... I also see other good evidence that those self same studies actually only show very modest results - if any results at all, and may (or may not) be skewed by industry-sponsorship and/or underreporting of side effects.

As with so many things, it seems to depend on whether or not you have already made up your mind one way or the other. And there is always ample evidence to support each of our confirmation biases, Drs and patients alike!
Mike

Type 1 since: 1991 Last HBA1c: 52 (6.8%)  Total Chol 5.0 (1.9HDL / 2.8LDL / Trigs 0.7)
Currently pumping NovoRapid with a MiniMed 640G
Blogging at: www.everydayupsanddowns.co.uk

Offline sedge

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Re: They'll be pushing this on us next
« Reply #10 on: 21 March 2017, 11:54:16 AM »
Well Michael, I do try quite hard not to be biased although of course I wholly accept that I am - and will always read whatever is said by this body or that and weigh up the 'evidence' whichever 'side' it is on.

However the thing I always come back to and meet an absolute brick wall - is the actual evidence of the claims they made for statins in the very first place.  They will NOT publish it, even now when the thing is 'off licence'.

If they'd ever explained WHY - and it was a reasonable cause - then I wouldn't be so suspicious.  As they refuse point blank even to excuse themselves - I won't stop.
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4