Author Topic: How many carbs?  (Read 702 times)

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Offline John

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How many carbs?
« on: 24 May 2017, 01:48:27 PM »
So an interesting conversation with the wife last night about how many carbs I should have for each meal. The answer is of course use your meter and work out what is best for you but it got me thinking.


I have had a search around today and there is a lot of info on low carb diets but nothing on standard diet.


So my question how many carbs do you aim for/have for each meal and how many points do you expect your BG to peak at after a meal?
John

Type 2, diag 2006, Metformin sr 1000mg, Gliclazide 160mg, Levemir 16units

Offline nytquill17

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #1 on: 24 May 2017, 03:00:44 PM »
I think you will find that the answers vary considerably depending on whether the person is insulin-dependant or not, and whether they have any natural insulin production or not (and if they do, whether they have a broken first phase or not).


So as a T1 with no natural insulin of my own, here are my answers:


When I'm taking myself in hand more consistently I aim for no more than 40g at lunch/supper (I don't generally eat breakfast but when I do I try not to have any carbs in it at all unless I wake up in the 4s or something) and no more than 100g per day. At other times I have regularly eaten 80-100g or more per meal. Obviously that doesn't go so well, control-wise - or weight-wise! >:D


How much I expect to spike after a meal depends to some extent on what I ate - if there was any kind of bread involved, I'm not getting away without a rise of at least 4 points and more likely 6.  3-4 is pretty standard for me, so that's also what I consider acceptable - again, for me! Someone else might find that amount of rise to be very distressing, whereas I find it more distressing to try for 2-3 and end up feeling frustrated and down on myself because I just can't get there. 20+ years in I still have all my bits and pieces, I think a good part of that is down to luck and good genes and not to anything I've done (and in spite of a good many things I haven't done!) but all the same, I feel like I've got a decent balance going between staying healthy and staying sane, so I'll stick with that for now!
T1 DX 1995
Levemir + Novorapid
 
  ~-~-~-~
"If you can't ride, can you fall?"
"I suppose anyone can fall," said Shasta.
"I mean can you fall and get up again without crying, and mount again and fall again and yet not be afraid of falling?"
"I - I'll try," said Shasta.
  ~C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy
  ~-~-~-~
"There is no answer; seek it lovingly."

Offline sedge

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #2 on: 24 May 2017, 05:46:33 PM »
I went onto insulin as an adult who ate a diet which was intended to keep me healthy and my weight steady at 8st 2lbs so I fitted in size 12 clothes.  This was because I only owned size 12s, we were mortgaged beyond the eyeballs without a spare bob and I couldn't have afforded to increase or decrease.  With one jab a day the hospital houseman needed to first see if I had a balanced diet - apparently I did - and then advise me how to split my c 100g a day carbs up across the day, to eat to the insulin.

Hence for 25 years that was that.  Then we could adjust with the more modern insulins blah blah.  I still find over 100g I gain weight and in fact - being less active generally as I've aged - now it's more like 80g because at 100g give or take, I've been doing too much giving and not enough giving.  As I'm about to strip off (it's not scorchio - but we have windows and doors open and it's certainly more than pleasant) - the plan from when I go shopping tomorrow is salad salad and salad - and far far less crap!  All winter I've been in the biggest of my fat clothes LOL  yes I can afford to replace them now - but utterly resent spending money on any bigger sized clothes !

You and your wife have to gradually work out, what's 'just right' for you - nobody else can do it. 

Frankly - I almost never take an 'after eating' BG unless I've eaten something I was clueless about the carbs and want to see if I guessed about right - so i don't 'aim' for anything except my BG being about back where it started by the time we get to the next meal.  It usually is there or thereabouts with all my usual meals and the majority of unusual ones but some things are a nightmare so I just don't have them very often.  When I do - I simply enjoy eating whatever it is - and then just deal with the BG disaster appropriately as it becomes apparent.
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Avocado

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #3 on: 25 May 2017, 07:24:58 AM »
I have had a search around today and there is a lot of info on low carb diets but nothing on standard diet.

So my question how many carbs do you aim for/have for each meal and how many points do you expect your BG to peak at after a meal?
I'm a type 2 (type of LOL), and I stick to a very low carb, high fat, moderate protein way of eating (with repaglinide sometimes as needed). I have 30 to 50g carbs a day but spread out of course. I've been eating this way for some years so I know that I have about 9g carbs for breakfast, 12g for lunch, 12 - 15g for dinner, and then bits of carbs inbetween meals got from milk in tea and coffee, and snacks of almonds and cheese. I keep an eye on my bg's - it's usually around 6.3 to 7.3 2 hours pp this way.
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline Quantum Learning

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #4 on: 25 May 2017, 12:49:23 PM »
I follow a VLCHF diet, 0 carbs for breakfast, only snack on ham/cheese during the day, no milk only double cream in my tea/coffee, between 15-20g for my evening meal and try to aim for a rise after of no more than 3. So my daily total is between 20-30g. I find this diet suits me very well and don't struggle apart from the odd takeaway when I have to inject a bolus. I might find I get a rise of 4 or 5 after a meal like this but not always and I'm always aiming lower. This is only more info for you just to see the way I do it, you will want to find what works for you. Obviously the less rise you get after a meal the better as apparently this is when the damage is done.
Type 2 dx Nov 2012 with fasting BG 14%/129.5
HbA1c Jan 2013 79/9.3%
April 2013 50/6.7%
July 2013 39/5.7%
Oct 2013 39/5.7% Chol 5.9
July 2014 45/6.3% Chol 5.5
Aug 2015 61/7.7% Chol 5.9
May 2016 84/9.7% Chol 6.9
Oct 2016 53/7%  Chol 6.3
Dec 2016 41/5.9% Chol 6.0
June 2017 51/6.8% Chol 6.1
Oct 2017 52/6.9% Chol
Metformin SR 2000mg, Candesarten Cilexetil 4mg Omeprazole 20mg, Fexofenadine 180mg Co-Codamol 30/500g when needed. Amitriptyline 20mg
Toujeo/NovoRapid, Allergic to Levemir.

Offline Paulines7

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #5 on: 26 May 2017, 10:27:20 AM »
I also follow a VLCHF diet, am type 2 and my control is diet alone.  I try to have as fewer carbs as possible for breakfast by eating eggs and having double cream in my coffee instead of milk.   Sometimes for breakfast, I have an avocado or full fat strained Greek yoghurt with three or four strawberries or raspberries.  Lunch is often a Lidl protein roll with cheese, followed by sugar free jelly with a few berries and some cream or yoghurt.  My evening meal is meat, plenty of vegetables from a choice of  broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, cabbage, sprouts, sugar snap peas, courgettes, squash and a small sweet potato. I try to avoid root vegetables such as potatoes, parsnips, carrots and swedes. However, I often have a mini Magnum for dessert in the evening.   

I aim to keep my bg readings under 10 about an hour or so after eating.  My readings rarely go over 7+ and the lowest is somewhere around 5.   I limit drinks to coffee and no added sugar squash or cranberry juice.  I drink  wine at weekends and sometimes have a gin and low carb tonic.  I snack on nuts if I am feeling peckish.

There are days when I find it hard to keep to a low carb diet and stray by eating cake or ice cream.  I then have to take myself in hand occasionally when my HbA1c test result is higher than it should be.  My GP likes my result to be under 50.

Try to keep your breakfast carbs to an absolute minimum, John as this is when your readings may already be high with liver dumps.  What do you normally have for breakfast, lunch and dinner, John?
Diabetes Type2 diagnosed March 2014.  Treated by diet only.  HbA1c 60 on diagnosis, 52 in June 2014, 50 October 2014, 44 December 2014, 48 May 2015, 50 Sep 2015, 53 Jan 2016, 50 Oct 2016, 56 Feb 2017, 50 Jun 2017. 50 Aug 2017.  Pacemaker fitted 2008.

When I get old I don't want people thinking
                      "What a sweet little old lady"........
                             I want 'em saying
                    "Oh Crap! Whats she up to now ?"

Offline Dr DeEath

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #6 on: 27 May 2017, 05:56:49 PM »
When I was diagnosed Type 1 I was on a fairly high carb diet but cannot recall how much. At around 13 it was about 200 gms CHO that was upped in two steps to 250. It then remained static with me gaining over a stone per decade. At my heaviest I was 110 kg but with the diagnosis of PAD two years after a serious leg fracture I realised I needed to lose weight. I only started making progress after I started reducing carbs and I am now around 120 per day (i.e. half). My insulin dose has also come down so really a win win position.

Most Type IIs I know are between 80 - 120 per day but it depends if they are trying to gain/maintain/lose weight...
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2017, 09:46:54 AM »
I think the general recommendations based on the "Healthy Plate" are far too high.  I slavishly followed the dietitian's advice on diagnosis and gained 3 stone which I have never been able to lose since.   When I came off Metformin last year I piled on 7 lbs.  I resumed the medication early this year and by dint of curbing carbs to approx 60 - 70g per day I lost the 7 lbs fairly effortlessly and didn't feel deprived.  Unfortunately the weight loss then stalled despite my continuing to eat at the same level.  My enthusiasm stalled with it I am afraid, though I am still not eating more the odd glass of wine is creeping in.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Blueduck

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #8 on: 30 May 2017, 08:00:48 AM »
You definitely have to find your own levels. Last year my bs levels went crazy and as I was only on 2 injections a day the only way I could change anything was reducing carbs. Cutting out bread had a huge impact for me and I have not gone back to bread, only as a treat. I found 30 carbs at each meal works for me, and my weight is pretty constant within 2/3 pounds. I can eat this for breakfast too, so it's definitely a very individual thing, you just need to do some experimenting and write everything down. Good luck.
Cheryl

Spelling is not everything!
Humalog and  Lantus. 4 metformin a day
Diagnosed T2 2010 Now find I am T1 2017

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #9 on: 30 May 2017, 08:33:48 AM »
Cheryl


What do you have for breakfast?  I rarely eat breakfast but if I do it's often a slice of Burgen bread toasted, only 12g carb, but it does spike.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Avocado

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #10 on: 30 May 2017, 09:18:35 AM »
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was not good for anyone with diabetes to skip breakfast, that it can lead to poorer bg control. And also it should be the lowest carbs of the three main meals.
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #11 on: 30 May 2017, 11:03:50 AM »
Avocado

I am on a pump and can indeed go without meals since I can use 24 different hourly basal rates which should keep my BGs absolutely flat.  In fact you are advised to skip breakfast (along with other meals) if you are basal testing.  Personally I am never hungry unless I am up very early.

Having said that I do have a "foot hits the floor" syndrome some days, but it's not every day, so I just do a little correction bolus if necessary.

I am not advocating people not on pumps to skip breakfast and I certainly subscribe to the theory that T2s need breakfast to stop DP.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 April 2016.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline nytquill17

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #12 on: 30 May 2017, 12:52:27 PM »
Like so many things with diabetes, I think that depends. As an insulin user I can (and usually do!) skip breakfast. At least a few days a week I skip lunch too - I don't actually get hungry although I do eat if I'm with other people who are eating (social eating, I guess?). Having lived for many years on an insulin regime where I had to "feed the insulin" and eat certain amounts at certain times regardless of how hungry I was or wasn't, I was I now have a strong aversion to forcing myself to eat when I don't actually want to. So I don't!

Through trial and error I know that I need to take 2-3 units of bolus insulin in the mornings to keep my BGs level through to midday, at which point my basal insulin will usually keep things sorted until I decide to eat. I can see how that would be much more difficult without being able to use insulin as a tool to manage my BG in the mornings, so for people not on insulin (D&E or oral medications) eating breakfast might be the easiest solution.
T1 DX 1995
Levemir + Novorapid
 
  ~-~-~-~
"If you can't ride, can you fall?"
"I suppose anyone can fall," said Shasta.
"I mean can you fall and get up again without crying, and mount again and fall again and yet not be afraid of falling?"
"I - I'll try," said Shasta.
  ~C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy
  ~-~-~-~
"There is no answer; seek it lovingly."

Offline Avocado

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #13 on: 30 May 2017, 01:12:30 PM »
Ah I see - thanks for explaing it. I was thinking of DP and how that might raise BGs.
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline John

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Re: How many carbs?
« Reply #14 on: 30 May 2017, 06:30:35 PM »
Thank you for the replies and sorry for my delay in replying, we had guests staying for a long weekend it was fun but tiring.

As I suspected it varies for everyone pretty much the same as with everything else to do with this beast.

At the moment I am trying to keep to 100g or less each day so that I can try and work out my basal rate as per the testing recommended on this site.

I do like toast and sandwiches and I am currently eating Warburtons danish weight watchers bread which is only 9.6g per slice and they are nearly full size slices, just very light.

I dont always eat breakfast it depends on how I feel and what my BG is, but if I do it is usually just one slice of buttered toast, for lunch I am having a sandwich which leaves me 70g or more for my evening meal. If I am running low during the afternoon I have a biscuit or two with my afternoon cuppa.
John

Type 2, diag 2006, Metformin sr 1000mg, Gliclazide 160mg, Levemir 16units