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Offline AlanSav

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Advice please
« on: 24 January 2018, 01:37:29 PM »
As per my very first post , I’m getting really worried.

Gliclazide was working for me. A lot better than anything else. But I’ve started to feel awful which especially in my job , makes things tough. Blood tests were spiking at 19 and not going under 13

Doc put me on 2 x 40 breakfast, 1 x 40 lunch and two in evening. We are eating correctly, veg shepherd pie last night, granola today.

I’m feeling bad still. Still not under 12.7 and I’m really anxious. Terrified of needing to inject , but I can’t have this. Any comments would be great

Thanks

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #1 on: 24 January 2018, 02:30:18 PM »
Hi Alan and welcome to the forum

I have read this post and your other post in the introductory section.  I think you mean you were prescribed Metformin (which presumably upset your tummy?) and are now on Gliclazide which stimulates your pancreas to produce more insulin, but you are spiking very high after eating.  This will indeed make you feel rotten.

However, you have given me a clue what you are eating (was the veggie shepherd's pie topped with mashed potato?) and I think the underlying problem may lie with the dietary advice you have been given, which is along the lines of "cut down on fat and sugar" , avoid meat etc?  Unfortunately the NHS is waay behind the times and in some areas is still dispensing dietary advice which will actually make your condition worse.

The food categories that will spike your blood sugars are Carbohydrates i.e. potatoes, rice, pasta, breakfast cereals (including granola at 52g carb per 100g), bread, baked goods of all types.  You can safely ignore anything advertised as "low fat" because remove the fat and you have something tasteless, so they substitute sugar and carbs and those will spike you.

You obviously have a meter, so use it well and wisely it will tell you what foods you can and cannot eat.  We all differ slightly in what we can tolerate carb wise and what I might tolerate you may not be able to...your meter will not lie to you though.  I attach a chart I made regarding foods to avoid, foods to moderate and foods you can eat freely etc.  It has been approved by my GPs surgery and is on the noticeboard there.  I also attach a small recipe leaflet giving you low carb substitutes for high carb foods.

Here are a couple of  good pieces of advice too :

http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.co.uk/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=136

Hope this helps!
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline BBarb

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #2 on: 24 January 2018, 02:41:37 PM »
Patti's advice is spot on, please take it.   I couldn't find your first letter so am not sure what you are dealing with - are you vegetarian for example?
The book 'Reverse your Diabetes' by Dr D Cavan helped me enormously with menus when John was diagnosed, and although he finds it difficult to stick to it does point out the right path to follow.  I got my copy from Amazon (2nd hand at £1.50 will you believe) and its been our bible ever since.
He was very overweight (you may not be) and has lost 3 stone by going to Slimming World - his GP arranged it for free 12 lessons - so it may be worth asking if you could take advantage (apologies if you're not overweight) as his blood levels improved along with his weight dropping.
Good luck and do take the advice of all the knowledgeable people on here.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #3 on: 24 January 2018, 03:55:10 PM »
Bbarb

You are quite right about weight loss being beneficial to BGs, but I am sure that the "eat as much as you like potatoes, rice, pasta" that SW allow is not right for people with diabetes unfortunately.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline AlanSav

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #4 on: 24 January 2018, 04:15:40 PM »
Thanks all.

I eat healthily, I’m not vegetarian. The issue is I work in a children’s home so I’m doing long hours sometimes 24 without a sleep if children are playing up.

As I said the meds were working pretty well. Then a month odd ago i noticed the cramping, the poor balance, itchiness, numbness in leg and tiredness increase.

I’ve even had a foreign holiday in between and relaxed wholly for a week.

I’ve NEVER had a real issue with spiking although six months I went from 0.5 up to 20.0 over 36 hours. This time even when I had little carbs at all it never went below 12.8 and even though meds were increased I simply went to bed again.

Great advice re diet thank you. It seems the increase in meds is giving me major headaches at the moment. Added to diverticulitis and massive iron issues, ( I was diagnosed with haemochromitosis ) but they changed their mind as my iron lowered without blood letting im in a rough state.

Still smiling though and thank you all

Offline sedge

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #5 on: 24 January 2018, 04:42:45 PM »
Well - see how you get on with limiting your carbohydrates - but if you ask me, the stress of your job (or indeed any stress, good or bad! - like gearing up to go on holiday, or getting excited about something, would you belive!) has an effect on our BG if we happen to be diabetic of any kind,sort or flavour.  Mostly it's do do with adrenalin/cortisol produced naturally by our bodies and the effect they have on the rest of our body.  We're pretty much stuck with that, so let's not dwell on that aspect at the moment till we all see how you get on with the diet.

Don't make drastic changes and cut out everything at once, do it in a planned way.  Which meal is easiest - bearing in mind the vast majority of us is more carb intolerant first thing in a morning.  See how you get on with breakfast first .... which should improve your BG before lunch, and so it proceeds .....

Test before and after brekkie, the increase from the meal you want is no more than 3.0 on your meter.  Don't worry -at this stage - what your BG is before breakfast - you are merely trying to see what effect the food itself has at the moment so you can see what adjustments need to be made.  It needs to be done 'ploddingly' - diabetes itself is a marathon - never a sprint!

Good luck!
 
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Quantum Learning

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #6 on: 24 January 2018, 05:32:51 PM »
Be aware you may need to not take the Glic if you eat a very low carb meal.   :)
Type 2 dx Nov 2012 with fasting BG 14%/129.5
HbA1c Jan 2013 79/9.3%
April 2013 50/6.7%
July 2013 39/5.7%
Oct 2013 39/5.7% Chol 5.9
July 2014 45/6.3% Chol 5.5
Aug 2015 61/7.7% Chol 5.9
May 2016 84/9.7% Chol 6.9
Oct 2016 53/7%  Chol 6.3
Dec 2016 41/5.9% Chol 6.0
June 2017 51/6.8% Chol 6.1
Oct 2017 52/6.9%
Jan 2018 51/6.8% Chol 5.9
Metformin SR 2000mg, Doxazosin 4mg, Lansoprazole 30mg, Fexofenadine 180mg Co-Codamol 30/500g when needed. Amitriptyline 20mg
Toujeo/NovoRapid, Allergic to Levemir

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #7 on: 24 January 2018, 07:23:16 PM »
Thanks all.

I eat healthily, I’m not vegetarian. The issue is I work in a children’s home so I’m doing long hours sometimes 24 without a sleep if children are playing up.

Sorry, eating healthily means different things to different people.  We have lots of people come in to the forum and what they mean by it is that they are following NHS advice on healthy eating, which is completely wrong for people with diabetes.  Perhaps you could give us a day's typical menu?

 I can however understand the stress the work must cause and that also can raise BGs.

Quote
I’ve NEVER had a real issue with spiking although six months I went from 0.5 up to 20.0 over 36 hours. This time even when I had little carbs at all it never went below 12.8 and even though meds were increased I simply went to bed again.

I presume you mean 5.0 not 0.5.  Of course levels of around 20 will make you feel rubbish.  Sometimes rather than retiring to bed a bit of exercise (not violent exercise) just a gentle walk, will get those BGs down effectively.

Quote
Great advice re diet thank you. It seems the increase in meds is giving me major headaches at the moment. Added to diverticulitis and massive iron issues, ( I was diagnosed with haemochromitosis ) but they changed their mind as my iron lowered without blood letting im in a rough state.

Still smiling though and thank you all

I wonder if your insulin production has suddenly gone down?  haemochromitosis is sometimes an autoimmune disease and usually if you have one autoimmune condition you will have others.  I have several autoimmune conditions, hypothyroid, psoriasis, Type 1.  Also  diverticulitis but I don't think that is autoimmune.  Type 1 diabetes or LADA (Latent Autoimmune Diabetes of Adults) are both autoimmune diseases and if you have the latter then none of the meds you are on will help.  It would certainly be worth going and having a conversation with your GP about the fast and extreme way your BGs have raised.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline BBarb

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #8 on: 25 January 2018, 09:59:54 AM »
John's SlimmingWorld leader has given him a diabetic booklet stressing the need to regulate the pasta/potatoes/rice regime and using it alongside the SW regime (I should have said that).  She's a bit paranoid about fats (in my opinion) but we've modified things to fit in with our more or less carb free lifestyle by substituting fats for carbs.
The only problem for me is stopping him cherry picking the bits he likes - ie he eats far too much fruit (again, in my opinion) and too much cheese - but when he does go to his GP/Diabetic nurse (every 6 months) he seems to be hovering just the 'wrong side' of normal - and he's losing a steady 2-3lbs a week (almost down to 16 stone now).
I'm convinced Dr Cavan's diet would work - its just a matter of whether the individual can stick to it, as I say - John is a great one for deciding that just one sausage roll won't count ............... then eating a further 3 or 4 (because one won't count).
 No I don't get it either!

Offline Paulines7

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #9 on: 25 January 2018, 11:39:09 AM »
Hello Alan.  Welcome to the forum. 

The advice I received on here has been invaluable to me.  I came across this forum a few days after I was diagnosed and I decided to follow the advice given on here, of a low carb diet.  That was 4 years ago and I have managed, with the help of a meter, to keep my blood sugar at an acceptable level without having any medication for my diabetes. 

You said that you work in a children's home.   Do you have to have the same meals as they have or are you able to take in your own food?  I can see the former being a problem for you. 

Sedge's suggestion of cutting down on carbs at breakfast is well worth trying.  It will mean no cereals or bread and substituting with a combination of eggs, bacon, 97% meat sausages and mushrooms.  If you do not want to cook, then half a large avocado or a whole small one, with cottage cheese (not low fat), is quick and easy to prepare.  Another quick alternative is full fat Greek yoghurt with some berry fruits.  I also have cream in my coffee as it has less carbs than milk.  You will find more suggestions for breakfast under the Diabetics Recipes section of this forum.

Good luck Alan, let us know how you get on.
Diabetes Type2 diagnosed March 2014.  Treated by diet only.  HbA1c 60 on diagnosis, 52 in June 2014, 50 October 2014, 44 December 2014, 48 May 2015, 50 Sep 2015, 53 Jan 2016, 50 Oct 2016, 56 Feb 2017, 50 Jun 2017. 50 Aug 2017. 47 Feb 2018  Pacemaker fitted 2008 - replaced 2017.

When I get old I don't want people thinking
                      "What a sweet little old lady"........
                             I want 'em saying
                    "Oh Crap! Whats she up to now ?"

Offline Venomous

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #10 on: 26 January 2018, 07:51:29 PM »
Hello Alan welcome to the forum, you've been given some wonderful advice, do take a look through it.

I have only one thing to add, if you do end up having to inject insulin, it's not anything to be nervous about, there are young children injecting themselves every day and controlling their own blood glucose levels. Nothing to be scared of. The needle from an insulin pen is tiny, just a few mm.


When I've had to work nights I have found it a real challenge to control my blood sugars, it puts the body under extra stress and strain and blood sugars raise when you aren't able to get a good nights sleep.

Good luck, I hope you're able to see your Gp and see if they can offer you anything else to help. If you're able to work on the meals you may not need more intervention with your meds as yet. Hope we hear more from you, let us know how you get on.
T2 and PCOS. Just had large serous adenofibroma removed with ovary and fallopian tube. Bp is now normal!

Novorapid, levemir, trulicity, metformin.

Offline Alan

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #11 on: 26 January 2018, 11:59:10 PM »
As per my very first post , I’m getting really worried.

Gliclazide was working for me. A lot better than anything else. But I’ve started to feel awful which especially in my job , makes things tough. Blood tests were spiking at 19 and not going under 13

Doc put me on 2 x 40 breakfast, 1 x 40 lunch and two in evening. We are eating correctly, veg shepherd pie last night, granola today.

I’m feeling bad still. Still not under 12.7 and I’m really anxious. Terrified of needing to inject , but I can’t have this. Any comments would be great.

G'day Alan and welcome to the forum. I like your name :)

Quote
I eat healthily, I’m not vegetarian.

Sorry, that does not tell us much as there are so many definitions of "eat healthily" - most of them wrong for type 2 diabetics. I have a lot of questions. Only answer if you wish to but the more info we have the better we can tailor suggestions. Over the past 24 hours, for breakfast, lunch and dinner separately:
  • What was on the menu including portion sizes, drinks and sides?
  • Did you test after the meal? if so, how long after and what numbers did you see?
If you did not test or don't recall the menu consider keeping a log for the next 24 hours, testing one and two hours after your three main meals and post the answers after that.

Click on this to understand why I ask: Getting Started
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
There is nothing I could eat I like more than my eyes.
Type 2 Diabetes - A Personal Journey (latest: Slow Cooked Beef Brisket)
Born Under a Wandering Star (Surviving Long-haul Flights in Cattle Class)

Offline AlanSav

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #12 on: 29 January 2018, 09:34:50 AM »
Hi all,

All your advice and help is brilliant.

Re my sugar levels, no my meter showed a drop to under 1 and it’s spiked right up in the twenties.

I think the long days at work starting at 10amfinishing 24 hours later with a potential 9 hour sleep is damaging me. I am beginning to think I need 9-5.

Yes I do eat the same meals as the children but these are only lunch and dinner as I eat breakfast at home.

A typical day

Two poached egg on toast

Lunch Tortilla wrap with ham and salad

Dinner Chicken and rice or similar. I don’t eat puddings, or rarely.

I’ve never smoked and alcohol is minimal, way under the recommended use.

Yesterday we had guests from America so I drove into London and then walked the sights with a lot of issues bar the neurological ones, a nowslam down my left leg no feeling in two toes, that’s awaiting specialist help.

Someone mentioned the haemochromitosis. I’m convinced it’s still an issue, it’s still 300 too high but the doctors can’t say why. All debilitating, as it replicates arthritis etc.

So I don’t eat rubbish, the children can mean exercise, we walk at home too regularly.

My bloods today aren’t the best so I tend to think that I’m simply not making enough insulin , I really don’t know.

Added to this the two very specific pain areas in my stomach are a worry. I’m really a very happy go lucky chap, I do think the tragedy of losing our son to suicide had a profound effect on my health.

But thank you so far  :)

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #13 on: 29 January 2018, 12:13:39 PM »
Hi again AlanSav
Hi all,

All your advice and help is brilliant.

Re my sugar levels, no my meter showed a drop to under 1 and it’s spiked right up in the twenties.
Right OK... under about 1.0 most meters just say "Lo", hence my querying the 0.5

Quote
I think the long days at work starting at 10amfinishing 24 hours later with a potential 9 hour sleep is damaging me. I am beginning to think I need 9-5.
Certainly until you get stabilised I should think.
Quote
Yes I do eat the same meals as the children but these are only lunch and dinner as I eat breakfast at home.

Two poached egg on toast

Lunch Tortilla wrap with ham and salad

Dinner Chicken and rice or similar. I don’t eat puddings, or rarely.
I've marked above in red  the items that will spike your blood sugars.  Even with insulin rice is terrible for me.

Quote
Yesterday we had guests from America so I drove into London and then walked the sights with a lot of issues bar the neurological ones, a nowslam down my left leg no feeling in two toes, that’s awaiting specialist help.

Sorry, what is a nowslam?  If you have lost feeling in toes it could be neuropathy, but if it is it can be reversed if you can regain control.

Quote
So I don’t eat rubbish, the children can mean exercise, we walk at home too regularly.

I wasn't suggesting you were eating rubbish  :D   That's one of the problems we have here, members tell us that they eat healthily - that might well be healthily for normal people, but quite wrong for diabetics (as per the items marked in red above)

Quote
My bloods today aren’t the best so I tend to think that I’m simply not making enough insulin , I really don’t know.

Added to this the two very specific pain areas in my stomach are a worry. I’m really a very happy go lucky chap, I do think the tragedy of losing our son to suicide had a profound effect on my health.

But thank you so far  :)

Whilst we can make suggestions, we aren't familiar with all your medical conditions and so they must be general suggestions.  Bearing in mind the other issues you have I do think you need to go and talk to your GP about all the issues you have.  However, bear in mind a lot of GPs do not know a lot about diabetes except for the very obvious things and it may be better if you could be referred to an Endo specialising in Diabetes at the hospital clinic.  If you aren't making enough insulin then there are tests to ascertain that.  Called a C-Peptide test I understand it's fairly expensive, but I had one after a lot of pushing. It proved what I had been saying all along, that I was mis-diagnosed to begin with.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Venomous

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Re: Advice please
« Reply #14 on: 01 February 2018, 07:31:45 PM »
I am so sorry to hear about your son. I'm sure that anxiety/depression/distress all has an affect on blood glucose levels, not to mention blood pressure. We all know that the release of stress hormones such as cortisol can raise BGs.

I'm wondering if your meter is working properly, I've never seen a 0.5 on my meter, between 3.0 and 4 I am generally aware of my hypo but able to treat it myself, as I get under 3 or so I get seriously unable to function.
T2 and PCOS. Just had large serous adenofibroma removed with ovary and fallopian tube. Bp is now normal!

Novorapid, levemir, trulicity, metformin.