Author Topic: Weight loss and insulin  (Read 899 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GrammaBear

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,798
Weight loss and insulin
« on: 18 April 2017, 03:05:35 PM »
I figured I would post my question in this thread and hopefully someone can give me some input.  Obviously I need to lose weight and I've been trying without success.  At my last Endo visit I asked him for suggestions on how to do this while using insulin.  He brushed me off and said "Starve yourself."  I was so disappointed by his response and I never brought up the question again.

Is it possible to lose weight while using insulin as I'm truly interested to know if someone else has been successful?  I am weary of hearing about my weight from doctors that I see when they have no useful suggestions.  I've been doing low carb for a long time and I've stopped gaining, but I haven't lost either.  I've also increased my 'movement' during the day by walking more and trying to stay active.  Any suggestions are appreciated.
Type 1
Tandem Tslim pump Oct 2015
Dexcom G5 CGM Sep 2007
A1C 6.5%~ Sep 2017

Offline Pattidevans

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 24,486
  • It's ONLY Diabetes. It could be something worse!
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #1 on: 18 April 2017, 08:10:42 PM »
Kathy

In 2009 I did lose about 12 lbs... but it was hard work and I had to be very disciplined.  I counted every mouthful and gave up a lot of stuff.  Since then even though I have tried I have not succeeded!
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Liam

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 3,138
  • We live to fight another day.
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #2 on: 18 April 2017, 08:24:33 PM »
I've not had much success, but I must say I've not been any good at practice. Sure I know the theory but I'm rubbish at putting that into practice. In my case the first step is to cut back on carbs again, I know that from this forum but just the last time I saw the Endo he suggested I cut carbs more to help lower my 'middle'. Goes to show some know what they are talking about.

I sadly think the only thing that might work for you if you are already low carbing well is to also count calories. Keep dropping the amount of calories until weightloss starts. That will work but might be hard or unsustainable.
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline GrammaBear

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,798
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #3 on: 18 April 2017, 09:39:01 PM »
Thank you Liam.  I find it difficult to lower the carbs because - to put it simply I enjoy eating.  I mostly don't eat junk food or fast food, but I do like the same foods my hubby eats.  He 'found' a particular kind of fresh apple in the produce section at the market and bought 2-3 of them.  He has an apple every evening on the weekend while we are watching television.

He offered me a few slices as that is how he fixes them for himself, quarters them and then slices them into a small bowl.  Well, the new kind of apple had 15 carbs for a half and it tasted wonderful.  It is hard to say "No" to fruit and vegetables even when I probably should.
Type 1
Tandem Tslim pump Oct 2015
Dexcom G5 CGM Sep 2007
A1C 6.5%~ Sep 2017

Offline GrammaBear

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,798
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #4 on: 18 April 2017, 09:44:19 PM »
Kathy

In 2009 I did lose about 12 lbs... but it was hard work and I had to be very disciplined.  I counted every mouthful and gave up a lot of stuff.  Since then even though I have tried I have not succeeded!

Patti - I'm surprised you have not succeeded because you get a fair amount of walking in your town or you've posted about walking places.  Do you think it is harder for women to lose weight than men?

I am cleaning closets recently and getting rid of clothes that no longer fit me.  I feel sad because some of them I really like and yet they are just occupying space in the closet or I think you call it the wardrobe?
Type 1
Tandem Tslim pump Oct 2015
Dexcom G5 CGM Sep 2007
A1C 6.5%~ Sep 2017

Offline Pattidevans

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 24,486
  • It's ONLY Diabetes. It could be something worse!
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #5 on: 19 April 2017, 09:32:50 AM »
Kathy


I don't know about men and women in general, but I do know that my husband loses weight a lot faster than me by just cutting out one or two things e.g. Potatoes.


I've not been walking a lot over the winter but have returned to it again this month.  I am struggling a bit with BGs, for example the day before yesterday I had roast lamb, a spoonful of soft polenta, roast squash and kale followed by some raspberries and strawberries and was hypo almost as soon as I finished eating, which required glucose tabs, a cereal bar and a temp basal of 60% until the early hours of the morning.  You can't lose weight if you keep having to eat for hypos.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline GrammaBear

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,798
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #6 on: 19 April 2017, 02:29:32 PM »
I've also been having my fair share of hypos too, until it dawned on me to change my insulin to carb ratio.  Now it remains to be seen if I've adjusted that number enough to slow down the hypos.  Just about the time when I get everything figured out as far as blood sugar control, it will be Fall and time to adjust rates etc. again.   :banghead:
Type 1
Tandem Tslim pump Oct 2015
Dexcom G5 CGM Sep 2007
A1C 6.5%~ Sep 2017

Offline Pattidevans

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 24,486
  • It's ONLY Diabetes. It could be something worse!
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #7 on: 20 April 2017, 07:49:27 AM »
I know, never ending is it?
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline GrammaBear

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,798
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #8 on: 20 April 2017, 02:55:08 PM »
I know, never ending is it?

I began to think about Liam's post where he mentions counting calories.  To start my day I like to have a cup of coffee with cream and stevia.  To me it seems harmless, however when you count the tablespoons of whole cream there are 50 calories in each spoonful.  Depending on how many cups of coffee I have, the calories could begin to mount up quickly.  I have to think about this some more. 
Type 1
Tandem Tslim pump Oct 2015
Dexcom G5 CGM Sep 2007
A1C 6.5%~ Sep 2017

Offline Dr DeEath

  • Member
  • Posts: 447
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #9 on: 20 April 2017, 07:16:40 PM »
I was constantly gaining weight until I lowered my carbs and insulin dose. The more you weigh the more insulin resistant you become. I don't know any other way as carbs convert to fat too easily...
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline Moby

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 2,068
  • Carbophobia rules ok!
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #10 on: 27 May 2017, 01:07:38 AM »
It's about time I dropped this bombshell.

I stopped taking insulin in August last year while on holiday.
I lost a stone in weight over 7 days. Sugars went up, weight came down.

Carried on when I got home, calculated risk and all that. Decided not to inject insulin again.

To date I've lost 4 stone. Gp and consultant were not happy. But hey! Lose weight and you won't be diabetic!....... Yada yada yada.. Yawn!

Only way insulin lowers bgs is by turning excess glucose into fat .  Ermmm? Don't diabetics suffer from excess glucose? Why give them stuff to make the excess glucose turn to fat if you want them to lose weight?

Probably should start my own thread with my observations, finding it hard to make time tbh.

Just to clarify. I am t2 , was ' obese'  and am now just ' overweight
bw
Moby

T2 since 2002.
metformin 2000mg. humalin I and humalog
Xpert graduate & Xpert Insulin Graduate. (for what it's worth)


©Martin Cronshaw 2015

Offline Venomous

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,596
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #11 on: 27 May 2017, 11:34:44 AM »
It's about time I dropped this bombshell.

I stopped taking insulin in August last year while on holiday.
I lost a stone in weight over 7 days. Sugars went up, weight came down.

Carried on when I got home, calculated risk and all that. Decided not to inject insulin again.

To date I've lost 4 stone. Gp and consultant were not happy. But hey! Lose weight and you won't be diabetic!....... Yada yada yada.. Yawn!

Only way insulin lowers bgs is by turning excess glucose into fat .  Ermmm? Don't diabetics suffer from excess glucose? Why give them stuff to make the excess glucose turn to fat if you want them to lose weight?

Probably should start my own thread with my observations, finding it hard to make time tbh.

Just to clarify. I am t2 , was ' obese'  and am now just ' overweight

I know pioglitazone worked the same way... convert the glucose in the blood to fat, hence the patient sees lower levels of blood glucose BUT puts on weight. It's the putting on weight that means you see the lower bg levels in essence then. And then get even worse issues with not being able to naturally use the insulin in the body.  The "gliclazide" type drugs do the same thing.

But no-one can function right at higher BG levels.... so what on earth do we do??

No doubt all the docs that will frown on your methods will congratulate you on the weight loss.


Just out of interest what are your "highs" like when you're not injecting? Mine are easily 17-26. I can't function like that, the whole world is an irritant at that level.
T2 and PCOS. Just had large serous adenofibroma removed with ovary and fallopian tube. Bp is now normal!

Novorapid, levemir, tibolone, estrogel.

Offline Pattidevans

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 24,486
  • It's ONLY Diabetes. It could be something worse!
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #12 on: 28 May 2017, 02:48:48 PM »
Moby

I am pleased for your sake that you have lost weight, but I would caution others against using this method.  You are a T2 with (presumably) still some insulin production, you're an adult and it's up to you what you do, BUT and it's a huge big BUT... it should never be tried by T1s as it can lead very quickly to diabetic ketoacidosis and prove fatal in a very short period.  Ditto for any T2 who has lost their own insulin production.  Withholding insulin doses is well known as an eating disorder and not to be encouraged by this forum.
Quote
Only way insulin lowers bgs is by turning excess glucose into fat .  Ermmm? Don't diabetics suffer from excess glucose? Why give them stuff to make the excess glucose turn to fat if you want them to lose weight?

Sorry, you have that rather askew, although you do say "excess glucose".  The action of insulin is to make it possible for glucose in the blood to enter cells and be turned into energy, if  of course you have too much glucose for your energy needs then yes, it will be stored as fat but that is the same for anyone with a working pancreas... if you eat more than your body needs for fuel then it will indeed make you fat.  So it's not insulin to blame per se... but an excess of fuel.

Lack of insulin means that the energy (glucose) cannot be used so in effect you are starving your body. 

Venemous
Quote
I know pioglitazone worked the same way... convert the glucose in the blood to fat, hence the patient sees lower levels of blood glucose BUT puts on weight. It's the putting on weight that means you see the lower bg levels in essence then. And then get even worse issues with not being able to naturally use the insulin in the body.  The "gliclazide" type drugs do the same thing.

Pioglitazone has a dual action, one to sensitise the body so it can use the fuel and the second to stop the liver releasing excess glucose.  As I said above it's action is not to turn BG into fat, unless of course there is excess glucose or fuel over and above what the body needs.

Of course, couple either of those things with the barking advice handed out by many in the NHS to base your meals around unnecessary amounts of carbohydrate and no wonder people find it hard to lose weight.

MOby,  you don't say what levels of BG you've been having, but do remember that too much glucose in the blood can lead to inflammation of the arteries and thus heart disease.  Plus of course nyou will feel rough I imagine.


Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Moby

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 2,068
  • Carbophobia rules ok!
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #13 on: 16 June 2018, 10:40:52 PM »

sorry to resurrect this thread and apologies for not explaining clearly.


Patti, I agree that no T1 should stop taking insulin, i apologise for not making that clear.


quote.
patti
if you eat more than your body needs for fuel then it will indeed make you fat.  So it's not insulin to blame per se... but an excess of fuel.

I agree with that Patti, but, from a T2 POV, think about this. the insulin doesnt know if the high BG is from food (fuel) or being produced by the liver. so if you're BG's are high despite not eating anything (and we all know this happens) any excess glucose is stored as fat.


I'll explain more to clarify my reasons.
Ive read that the the body can store upto 1500calories in the form of glucose.


Malcolm kendrick
'Once the liver and muscles are full of sugar (stored as glycogen – a polymer of glucose) the body can do absolutely nothing else with it, but turn it into fat – through the processes I have described earlier. This is basic, incontrovertible science.'

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/06/23/what-happens-to-the-carbs/


So, here's how I see it. Diabetes is a symptom of an illness. The symptom shows itself as high blood sugar levels, which, need to be lowered.
Insulin release is your body's reaction to a high blood sugar level. If you stop it going high by not eating or drinking anything, then your insulin release will lower. But how long can you NOT eat and drink for?


Then you have the body's ability to produce it's own glucose, a typical reaction to keep your sugar levels up when you fast or miss a meal etc. In a diabetic fasting BG's can be twice as high as 'normal'


As insulin is a reactive response to high blood sugar levels, IE the body produces it reduce BG levels, it would be better to avoid high BG's in the first place. Easier said than done, but the body produces glucagon to fuel our bodies to maintain our energy.


quote
malcolm kendrick
Today we have a virtually unquestioned model of diabetes that is very simple, and easy to understand. It should be simple to understand as it works like this. If the blood sugar goes up, the body produces insulin to lower it. If the blood sugar goes down, the body produces less insulin and the sugar level goes up. This has meant that, if you find someone had high blood sugar levels, you basically hit them with insulin. I call insulin the ‘glucose hammer’ and, as a wise man once said. ‘If the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon everything starts to look like a nail’.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/08/04/turning-diabetes-upside-down/


So as I see it, if its a tablet you take to increase insulin production, or, if you inject insulin. We are all told that insulin is 'the key' to get energy into our cells, once those cells are full, what next? the liver and muscles are filled up, what next? if sugar levels are still high its excreted in the urine, but what cant be got rid of is stored as fat.

There are numerous links in Dr Malcolm Kendrick's blog, which I have looked through for years now, and, they all seem to make sense (to me anyway) Some of them have been an awakening from what I already knew. IE basic O level biology studied at school over 30 years ago.



Those that know me well have seen my ups and downs with my treatment, I've been to the top and come back down again. Ive fought against statins with my GP, and fought for my test strips when they were restricted. Been there done that and fought other battles too.

All the decisions I make are as well informed as I think they can be, I do spend a lot of time reading as much as I can.

I cant and do not advocate or advise anyone to do what I have done, it's just a report of what I have done, tried and learned for myself.

I hope this explains my thinking !
bw
Moby

T2 since 2002.
metformin 2000mg. humalin I and humalog
Xpert graduate & Xpert Insulin Graduate. (for what it's worth)


©Martin Cronshaw 2015

Offline Pattidevans

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 24,486
  • It's ONLY Diabetes. It could be something worse!
Re: Weight loss and insulin
« Reply #14 on: 17 June 2018, 09:01:16 AM »
Just trying to take that in Moby.  I thought you were advocating high BGs to lose weight.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans