Author Topic: Veggies and complex carbs  (Read 825 times)

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Offline Avocado

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Veggies and complex carbs
« on: 04 February 2018, 07:43:17 AM »
Hi,


The cardiac exercise specilist I'm under at the moment (doing a three month course to help with my cardiac symptoms) is interested in my diet for diabetes, that is LC/HF - just to be ultra clear that is Low Carb along with High Fat. For my carbs I eat a lot of veggies like kale, brocolli, asparagus, cauliflour, courgettes, ie the lowest carb ones, plus get a few carbs from almonds and from the milk in my tea.


The cardiac exercise specilist thinks I don't eat any "complex carbs", something to do with the veggies being so low in the glycaemic index. For example, she said that sweet potatoes are complex carbs but not kale.


Does anyone have any ideas, or links, on how to explain that the kind of veggies I eat are complex carbs, albeit very low in carbohydrate and low in the glycaemic index, but they are obviously complex carbs as they are broken down very sowly in digestion. (Milk, on the other hand, is a simple carb). I've found links which list veggies under "complex carbs" and found links which list them as very low in the glycaemic index, so I'm not sure how to exlplain that they are indeed complex carbs.



Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline himtoo

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #1 on: 04 February 2018, 09:23:57 AM »
there might be a bit of confusion here............ if you do a google search for "low starch vegetables" this will give you a link to a list that will most likely be what you are eating.
in the list I found all items on it were things that my nutrionist considers to be "free"  most all of the items were 4 grams of carb per 100 grams or less
they include kale , broccoli , cauliflower , lettuce , tomatoes , brussel sprouts , mushrooms , celery , courgette , aubergine , asparagus , fennel , cucumber.
low carb veggies also contain more water.

now moving on to higher starch vegetables -- sweet potato , potato , parsnips etc--- 
these contain higher amounts of polysaccharide ( starch )

the low carb veggie list is not normally considered to be complex carbs because of the low levels of polysaccharide in them.
T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #2 on: 04 February 2018, 11:45:41 AM »
On the other hand if you google "Complex carb vegetables" it says all leafy green veg are complex carbs.

Avocado

I found lots of sites saying Kale is a complex carb (along with other green veg) but they were mostly "health" sites.  Why is the Cardiac exercise specialist worried about it?
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Avocado

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #3 on: 04 February 2018, 12:09:20 PM »
On the other hand if you google "Complex carb vegetables" it says all leafy green veg are complex carbs.
I found lots of sites saying Kale is a complex carb (along with other green veg) but they were mostly "health" sites.  Why is the Cardiac exercise specialist worried about it?
That's what I found too, that leafy veg are all complex carbs ! Maybe it's the low levels of polysaccharides in them as himtoo says ?

Reading between the lines, I would guess the cardiac exercise specialist is thinking people need complex carbs to give a steady supply of energy.

 I did tell her that I get my energy from fats, not from carbs but it's a very difficult concept for these people to get their heads around low carb/high fat diets, plus they still worry about fats. I have lent her 'Diabetes Unpacked'.

It's not going to be a problem as I'm their star patient in every other respect apart from diet ! And I've given them a copy of my endo's last letter which says my diabetic control is "exemplary" but they can't understand becasue its so different from the standard government advice. I'm not trying to convince or convert them - I definitley believe that peope should make their own minds up !
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline himtoo

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #4 on: 04 February 2018, 01:56:19 PM »
I will be seeing a dietician on tuesday -- I shall ask what she thinks and any science behind what she says...............

possibly they are complex by definition but have such low levels of starch that ( as we know to be true ) they are great for D's because they cause such minimal spiking of BG's. :)
T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline Avocado

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #5 on: 04 February 2018, 02:19:48 PM »
I will be seeing a dietician on tuesday -- I shall ask what she thinks and any science behind what she says...............
Thanks himtoo ! Much appreciated !

I doubtless also get some energy from the protein I eat, Prince of Protein !
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline BBarb

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #6 on: 05 February 2018, 09:06:20 PM »
They seem to have been brainwashed into thinking fats are BAD.  I think it will take a generation to get rid of this mindset.
All the same I think we must rid ourselves that all carbs are bad and allow that some starchy vegs can be acceptable and healthy for those of us who can tolerate them.

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #7 on: 05 February 2018, 09:27:27 PM »
I will be seeing a dietician on tuesday -- I shall ask what she thinks and any science behind what she says...............
Thanks himtoo ! Much appreciated !

I doubtless also get some energy from the protein I eat, Prince of Protein !


They are totally convinced that you need carbs to get energy and live, whereas actually the body is adept at converting protein and fat into glucose in the absence of carbs.  There’s a chart here showing the rate of conversion http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=438

Bbarb, although carbs may form part of a healthy diet as you say,  they are not “essential” and the amount “advised”in government guidelines is far too high to be healthy.  Not to mention the amount people actually do habitually eat.  Just seen what someone was raving about on a supposedly “good food”site... pasta carbonara with Chips!  I ask you!


FWIW I do like carbs myself.  Just try not to be silly with them.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Avocado

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #8 on: 05 February 2018, 09:49:54 PM »
Thanks for the link to that chart Patti - going to print it, very useful !
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline sedge

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #9 on: 05 February 2018, 10:15:43 PM »
ISTR that was given to someone by their hospital diabetes clinic - somebody like Jenny, the lawyer lady whose user name escapes me at the moment.
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Avocado

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #10 on: 06 February 2018, 07:19:49 AM »
And I get energey from fats, not from the glucose I convert from them but from ketones.


Just found a good webstie which explains how a ketogenic diet gives energy from fats, not carbs, but how to get that concept across, but this website looks promising: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto
And from that same docotr a link to low carb keto for doctors: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/for-doctors  !
And a UK GP explaining things: https://www.dietdoctor.com/member/courses/unwin
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #11 on: 06 February 2018, 08:48:47 AM »
Excellent links Anne, many thanks!  I don’t know how much I can get the nurse at the GPs to read of this evidence.  Little I fear, and there is no way I can show her online in the surgery.  I lent her Dr Cavan’s book “Reverse your Diabetes”a year ago and in the end had to ask for it back as I was afraid to lose it due to the fact that it was personally signed by him for me.  It was patently unread.  I need to have a meeting with her in the near future as the PPG are wanting her to hand out my leaflet with low carb recipes, so far it seems to have floundered.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Avocado

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #12 on: 07 February 2018, 07:30:53 AM »
Yesterday I gave the cardiac clinical exercise specialist I'm under those links to that website, both the link for patients section and the link to the doctors' specific section. She was really pleased. She then told me that there is another patient at the clinic who is diabetic who is also doing very low carb which that patient's exercise specialist also couldn't understand. So we may have progress in motion !


I started out by saying simply that I understood their dietary recommendations which say a person should have slow release complex carbs so they have a steady supply of energy, from carbs, throughout the day, but that I could never get enough energy from the very few carbs I eat, so I get my energy from fats, from 'ketones' - and so the conversation progressed positively from there.


I think the doctors' section of that website is very clear and answers a lot of the questions that health professionals have !
Anne

Atypical Type 2, thin, not insulin resistant, diagnosed March 2007. Very low carb (30 - 50g per day) Paleo diet and exercise - Prandin (Repaglinide) 0.5mg. Aortic Valve Replacement Jan 2014, Osteoporosis, Small airways disease, probable coeliac - Strontium Ranelate 2g/d, Omacor 2g/d, vitamin K2 300mcg/d, Aviticol (vit D3) 20,000 IU every week, Qvar 100 2/day.

Current HbA1c 33 Current total cholesterol 7, HDL 3.5, LDL 3.2, triglycerides 0.4

Offline himtoo

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #13 on: 07 February 2018, 11:36:41 AM »
had a chat with the dietician ..... there was agreement from her that green veggies are indeed complex but are very low in polysaccharides , high in water and high in fibre.
and from a diabetic point of view are great to eat because they have little impact on BG's.
she is a firm advocate of the LCHF diet and has helped many T2's to come off all meds by starting with the Newcastle diet and then rejoining real food with a LCHF diet.

T1 Dia Aug 1972 -pumping omnipod since 29/09/15  Losartan 100mg , simvastatin 40mg,Furosemide 40mg, Omeprazole 80mg , Doxazosin 8mg
Hba1c - 06/2013 6.1 02/2014 43(6.1) 07/14 42(6.0) 08/14 40( 5.8 ) 12/14 39 (5.7) 08/15 41 ( 5.9) 10/15 44 ( 6.2 ) 03/16 49 (6.6)
cholesterol --nov 2011 4.3 june 2012 4.4 June 2013 4.1 Feb 2014 4.1 dec 14 4.5 oct 15 4.4
Dafne grad. necrobiosis lipoidica on legs
laser treatment on both eyes 2002 and 2012, injections left eye 3 , wearing Noctura mask since oct 2014

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: Veggies and complex carbs
« Reply #14 on: 07 February 2018, 12:30:25 PM »
I am making my way through the videos on the website (the Dr's page).  I have known of Dr Unwin for quite a long time.  I'm pondering a way to get the nurse to look at it (although she does generally advise not too many carbs),  The trouble is that as far as I can tell they don't have internet access in the surgery and they don't want to know in their own time.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans