Author Topic: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs  (Read 465 times)

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Offline Steven

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #15 on: 06 December 2018, 10:25:17 PM »
What I find really frustrating about Newcastle University's work is that they have promoted their dietary theories ruthlessly, but I have never managed to find any analysis of those diabetics for whom they have found the diet doesn't work.
Type 2 (diagnosed Summer 2006) - HbA1c (Sept '09) 6.9, (Mar '10) 6.4, (Oct '10) 6.7, (May '11) 7.3, (Aug '11) 6.5, (Nov '11) 48 (6.5), (Nov '12) 46 (6.4), (May '13) 50 (6.7), (Nov '13) 45 (6.3), (May '14) 45 (6.3), (Dec '14) 45 (6.3)
(Dec '17) 60, (Apr '18) 70, (Oct '18) 52 (6.9)
Metformin 1000mg Mycophenolate mofetil 1000mg Prednisolone 5mg Ramipril 5mg Citalopram 20mg Gliclazide 160mg Doxazosin 1mg

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #16 on: 07 December 2018, 03:38:51 PM »
Does this article help?
https://www.ncl.ac.uk/.../newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/.../long-versus-short-term-...

Or do you mean that you're unable to find any research into why it didn't work for everyone?
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Steven

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #17 on: 07 December 2018, 04:11:33 PM »
I can't get the link to work, Patti. But, yes, I would like to know if there are patterns in the people in whom it doesn't work. Do they research people for whom it is not completely a "lifestyle disease"? Thinking about myself and my kidney condition, I never see any acknowledgement of the role of other meds in causing diabetes. Was there a point at which I could have reversed it? What if I'd refused the atenolol (that I no longer take) that I was on when before being diagnosed diabetic (not that it was considered a risk then)? Or was I just stuffed by having to take prednisolone for ever? My weight's normal now, so it's obviously too late.
Type 2 (diagnosed Summer 2006) - HbA1c (Sept '09) 6.9, (Mar '10) 6.4, (Oct '10) 6.7, (May '11) 7.3, (Aug '11) 6.5, (Nov '11) 48 (6.5), (Nov '12) 46 (6.4), (May '13) 50 (6.7), (Nov '13) 45 (6.3), (May '14) 45 (6.3), (Dec '14) 45 (6.3)
(Dec '17) 60, (Apr '18) 70, (Oct '18) 52 (6.9)
Metformin 1000mg Mycophenolate mofetil 1000mg Prednisolone 5mg Ramipril 5mg Citalopram 20mg Gliclazide 160mg Doxazosin 1mg

Offline Dr DeEath

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #18 on: 07 December 2018, 04:44:45 PM »
This should be the Newcastle link:

https://www.ncl.ac.uk/research/impact/casestudies/diabetes/

Now to read it! On another forum I sometimes peruse one person keeps claiming a total plant based diet reverses CVD (cardio vascular disease). The link points to distinctly flawed research!
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline Liam

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #19 on: 07 December 2018, 09:12:16 PM »
I often think our members know more than the researchers. We know that type II isn't one illness really. They are bad for always blaming lifestyle when that is just a subset of type IIs.
DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline Dr DeEath

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #20 on: 07 December 2018, 09:45:49 PM »
I often think our members know more than the researchers. We know that type II isn't one illness really. They are bad for always blaming lifestyle when that is just a subset of type IIs.

Hear, hear! I have mentioned a friend with no lifestyle issues who was diagnosed in his sisters yet is constantly told he is Type II despite needing insulin to control BGs. As he is 6' and 12 stone the 800 cal diet would do more harm than good. I did read that 1 in 5 Type IIs have no lifestyle issues!
T1 for over 50 years.  MDI on Porcine insulin.  Lisinopril and Atorvastatin.

Offline sedge

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #21 on: 07 December 2018, 10:04:48 PM »
Well - it is designed to get rid of body fat in terms of being overweight - but that leads on to helping get rid of the so called 'brown' fat round the organs - which can assist other types too.  However if you aren't overweight - are you going to be considered for the thing in the first place?
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Liam

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #22 on: 07 December 2018, 10:15:20 PM »
Well yes it does appear to work in the cases that are caused by fat around the organs.

Even as a type I that has lost a good bit of weight lately. I've lost almost all the insulin resistance I had. I'm on much smaller doses from dropping a bit of extra weight.

I hadn't worked it out but the nurse knew it was the weight from my middle going down that had changed my insulin needs.

DX Type I 1994.    Novorapid Animas Vibe pump
HbA1c 3/10 10.2%, 7/10 8.1%, 12/10 7.5%.
2/11 7.8%, 8/11 8.6% 9/11 8.3%.
3/12 62 (7.8%). 10/12 67 (8.3%)
4/13 63 (7.9%) 6/13 59 (7.5%)
1/14 71 (8.6%) 7/14 59 (7.5%) 11/14 (6.7%)
3/15 56 (7.3%) 12/15 49 (6.6%)
Ramipril: 10mg Quetiapine: 550mg Metformin: 2000mg

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #23 on: 08 December 2018, 09:58:34 AM »
I can't get the link to work, Patti. But, yes, I would like to know if there are patterns in the people in whom it doesn't work. Do they research people for whom it is not completely a "lifestyle disease"? Thinking about myself and my kidney condition, I never see any acknowledgement of the role of other meds in causing diabetes. Was there a point at which I could have reversed it? What if I'd refused the atenolol (that I no longer take) that I was on when before being diagnosed diabetic (not that it was considered a risk then)? Or was I just stuffed by having to take prednisolone for ever? My weight's normal now, so it's obviously too late.


I’ve never seen it suggested that Atenolol causes diabetes, but prednisolone is a steroid  and steroids certainly can cause diabetes.  A friend of mine has steroid induced diabetes, but his father was also diabetic, so maybe he had the gene as well.


As far as the Newcastle diet goes, as sedge says, it works by reducing the brown fat around the organs so if your diabet3s has been caused by steroids then I’d doubt it would work for you, but that’s a guess on my part.  I am sure someone could answer that question authoritatively,for example one of the research team.  How we would get in touch with such a person I don’t know.
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline sedge

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #24 on: 08 December 2018, 12:42:18 PM »
Could try ringing Newcastle Uni and asking if Prof Taylor/Keane have a secretary you could speak to - OR - ask your own D clinic?
Jenny

T1 DX 1972, pumping Novorapid 24/05/11

HbA1c - 7/07 8.7, 1/08 7.8, 9/08 8.4, 3/09 7.3, 7/09 7.2, 12/09 7.3, 11/10 8.1, 2/11 8.6, 9/11 6.5 2/12 6.4  5/12 50/6.7  11/12 52/6.9  01/13 46/6.4  06/16 46/6.4  12/16 45/6.4

Offline Pattidevans

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #25 on: 08 December 2018, 01:18:56 PM »
Steven
If you do find out can you let us know please?
Patti


Type 1.  Mis-diagnosed T2 May 2003, finally had CPeptide test 15/7/11 and proper diagnosis 1/9/11.  Now pumping Apidra with Roche Spirit Combo pump. Hba1c 6.1 Sept 2017.  45 (6.3) April 2018.


© 2015 Patti Evans

Offline Moby

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Re: 800 Calorie Diet on NHS for Type IIs
« Reply #26 on: 09 December 2018, 08:37:46 PM »
Did they ever test you properly Mobes?

nope, never been tested for type.

i'm in the middle of making the biggest 'we told you so!' flag in the world.
bw
Moby

T2 since 2002.
metformin 2000mg. humalin I and humalog
Xpert graduate & Xpert Insulin Graduate. (for what it's worth)


©Martin Cronshaw 2015